maximum change rooms?

[Benahmed Abdelkrim]

   par fois on a besoin de maximiser les changement de salles par jour pour les étudiants afin de minimiser les sortis et entrés des groupes d'élèves. on sait bien que ces mouvements des élèves et désagréable car elles dérangent et provoque des pertes de temps.
   pouvons nous dans FET minimiser ces mouvement par une sorte d'astuces qu'on peut appliquer? une contrainte par exemple qui maximise les changements des salles par jour pour les élèves.
cette contrainte d'espace(sinon astuce dans FET actuelle) et nécessaire surtout dans quelque établissements qui ont un nombre de salles insuffisant par rapport au nombre des groupes d'élèves.

sometimes you need to maximize the change rooms a day for students to minimize came out and groups of students. we know that these movements of students and unpleasant because they disturb and causes loss of time. we can minimize these FET in motion by a sort of tricks that can be applied? such a constraint that maximizes the change rooms per day for students.
this space constraint (otherwise trick in current FET) and necessary especially in some institutions that have an insufficient number of rooms to the number of groups of students.

[Volker Dirr]

I answer a little bit longer, even you know parts of it already:

First of all it depend on if you are using teacher home rooms or students home rooms. If you have teacher home rooms, teachers don't need to run, but students must do it. If you use students home rooms, then students don't need to run but teachers must do it.

Second of all it depend on your activity planning. Try to add as many same teachers-students combinations to an activity as you can. Have a look for example at most primary schools. Nearly all subjects are teached by the same teacher, so there is (nearly) never a room swap needed. Worst case is each subject with a different teacher. Many swaps are needed then. So try to set as many subjects with the same teacher to a students set. Also try to set as many lessons as possible in the home room. So maybe art and biology doesn't need a special room in some years, maybe they can just do that in the home room!

Third of all: You want to have a constraint for that. Be very carefull with it!
Example:
You have got 6 hours per day. And you a got sport in the gym of course. Walking to the gym and back again are room swaps of course. Now you said: hmm, room swaps are bad. I will allow only 1 room swap per day. So what does it mean in this example: sports must be scheduled in the last or in the first hour now. All other hours will produce at least 2 swaps. Of course for one students set that is very fine and ok. But what will happen if you add that constraint to all students? It mean all sport hours will be in the first or the last hour. Other hours won't be used. That will produce a room problem in the gym, because it will highly impossible for most schools to keep the gym unused in the other hours.

Currently there is only a max building constraint for students swaps. But you can "misuse" that constraint as a max room swaps constraint. In extremest version you simply set each room in a different building (for example by calling the building name similar to the room name).
I highly suggest to start not with that extreme version. Maybe try to set the floor as "building". So swaps on the same floor are ok, while swaps over other floors are not ok. Of course don't forget to think about a good use of floors also, so think which students/teachers should be in which floor.

[Liviu Lalescu]

It is difficult for me to understand your request. If you mean to minimize the room changes for students, you can add each room in a separate building, and use constraints for max building changes for students.

[Benahmed Abdelkrim]

   je pence que votre suggestion coïncide avec la suggestion de mr volker dirr, et je crois quelle est bonne. faire en sorte que chaque chambre et dans un bâtiment différent, permet effectivement d'utiliser la contrainte:" max building changes per day for studdents", et donner un nom similaire aux constructions; c'est une très bonne astuce, qui permet d'éviter un ajout de contrainte de ce genre.
   cette idée ma venu après une remarque faite par un directeur de collège que je lui ai montré un tableau d'un établissement dont le nombre de groupe d'élèves et supérieure au nombre de salles:
nombre de salles=18
nombre de groupe=20
donc chaque groupe de l'ensemble des 18 groupes à une salle propre à lui; mais les 2 groupes qui reste doivent "sauter" d'une salle à une autre pendant que ses salles sont disponible. bien-sur ce cas on le trouve quand ces établissement sont dans des circonstances extraordinaire; comme par exemple des travaux dans certaines salles. ces travaux interdisent une utilisation normale.

I think your suggestion coincides with the suggestion of mr volker Dirr, and I think what is good. ensure that each room in a different building, actually allows to use coercion "max per day for exchange building studdents" and give a name similar to the constructions; it is a very good tip, which avoids adding this contrain . my idea came after a comment made by a college principal that I showed him a picture of an institution whose number of student group and greater than the number of rooms:
number of rooms = 18
group number 20 =
So each group of all 18 groups in a clean room to him; but the two groups still must "jump" from one room to another while its rooms are available. well in this case it is found when the institution are in extraordinary circumstances; such as work in certain rooms. this work forbid normal use.

[Benahmed Abdelkrim]

  J'ai essayé l'idée suggéré, qui consiste à utiliser chaque salle dans chaque construction différente. et ça marche très bien.
  j'ai ajouté un nombre de constructions  égale au nombre de salles c'est à dire 18, et j'ai donné le même nom de salle au construction qui la contienne. ensuite j'ai utilisé la contrainte d'espace: "max changement  de constructions par jour pour un groupe d'élèves" et j'ai donné 1 au nombre maximum de changements. et cela  fonctionné parfaitement.
pour rappelle, j'utilise la version algérienne FET-5.27.3-algeria9. 
merci beaucoup pour l'idée géniale. I tried the idea suggested, which is to use each room in each building different. and it works very well.
   I added a number of structures equal to the number of rooms that is 18, and I gave the same room name at the construction contains. Then I used the space constraint "max change constructions per day for a group of students" and I gave one to the maximum number of changes. and it worked perfectly.
to remember, I use the version of Algerian FET-5.27.3-algeria9.
  thank you very much for the great idea.


good neight i'm going to sleep...
   

[Benahmed Abdelkrim]

   dans le même contexte, est ce qu'on peut à l'aide d'une astuce, régler FET a faire en sorte que les changement des immeubles pour les élèves se fait a chaque deux heures?. c'est a dire que le rythme de changement soit égale a deux heures. je pense que cette astuce sinon une sorte de contrainte de temps liées à l'espace?. pourquoi pas? car cette contrainte, permet un allègement des mouvement des élèves entre les immeubles, très utile surtout pour les systèmes éducatifs qui prévoit une récréation pour les élèves toutes les deux heures.     

  in the same context, is what we can with a trick, adjust FET has to ensure that the change of the properties to students has made every two hours?. that is to say that the pace of change is equal to two hours. I think this trick if not a kind of time constraints related to the space ?. why not? because this constraint, allowing an easing of movement of students between buildings, very useful especially for education systems which provides recreation for students every two hours.

[Volker Dirr]

You can do that already today.
You only need to add a "break" hour between hour 2 and 3, between hour 4 and 5, ...
Add constraint "beak" at that hours since there are only "breaks", not real hours.

then add constraint constraint "min gaps between building changes" and set the value up to 1.
(the constraint is 2 times available. once for students and once for teachers.
depending on your dataset:
if you have students home rooms, then such a min gap for students will be easy; while for teachers it will be difficult (maybe even impossible!).
if you have teachers home rooms, then such a min gap for students might be impossible; while for teachers it will be much more easy.)

[Benahmed Abdelkrim]

   merci beaucoup mr volker dirr pour cette réponse rapide. je suis vraiment trés reconnaissant.
  donc finalement on n'a pas vraiment besoin d'une autre contrainte, il apparaît bien que FET a tout prévu.
   merci encore une autre fois.

thank you very much mr volker dirr for the quick response. I am really very grateful. so finally we did not really need another constraint, it appears that FET has everything planned. thank you yet again.