Messages

LATER EDIT:  Just to make sure, how many categories do you need? I counted 7, but I am not sure. Include also A and B as categories.

Hi again,

for the example of year 2, I've counted 9 categories. There were some details not explained in my original post (because to overview the problem I thought there weren't necessary). Now I attach a spreadsheet (ods) with the details of year 2, and as an example of the kind of display I suggested.
Some comments to this spreadsheet: the 2D division (diversity) could be managed as another group, in the same way as OPT group. Also, as I said before, maybe in the display some subactivities (like the OPT group ones) could be joined in one timetable to avoid so many ones.

Finally, this number of categories (9) would be needed for the year 2, which is the first I'm considering (because I know it well), but I cannot assure there's no other group with greater needs. I should look at it carefully, but maybe, if the solution is to add categories, would be better to put a greater maximum number to be sure it's enough.

  ßingen.

It is not possible in the algorithm to have a students set having >= 2 activities at the same time. I don't know if this can be changed, but anyway it would be very difficult.

By students set do you mean subgroups, don't you? Because in a group it's possible to have 2 activities at the same time, isn't it?

And what about implementing the concept of "activity group", associated to a group of students, and that FET internally define a subgroup associated to each subactivity, but in a transparent way to the user?

  ßingen.

Later edit: by problems, I mean you might need to combine years 1A and 1B's categories.

Yes indeed, in the diversity group and the optative subjects we mix pupils from both groups A & B...

  ßingen.

Do you think that allowing 6 categories would be good? Or do you need 7? Or more? Wouldn't that lead to too many subgroups?

How many categories would the most difficult school need? How many divisions for each category?

Well, I don't know how many would we need as the maximum, but as you have observed and I commented before, this would end up in a lot of subgroups, and maybe they would be hard to handle. We also would have the problem to display the information clearly in a large group timetable (of the first category, A & B in my case)

I have just posted a message about this problem...

Thanks,

  ßingen.

Hi,

first of all, thanks for the quick replies.

so if i understood correct, you just want to have a similar list?
so i just have to:
1. print all "activities have same starting time (day+hour)"-constraints.
2. Maybe improvet: behind each table just with the used constraint in that table.
3. maybe improvet: mark that activities in the table.

Well, it could be a good option, but maybe not the best. Liviu and you could think which is the best, reagarding also to the general profit, but I have another suggestion:

For the internal organization of my school, it's convenient to have a general timetable for each group, A and B, and Untis gives it. But as you observed, the footnote legend style it's not probably the best, as it's a little bit difficult to understand. I think in FET a good solution could be to be able to define a group of activities for a group (for example A, or even the whole year A and B), and then subdivide this group of activities in many subactivities, each of them with its own teacher and classroom (I have read the term "subactivity" in the manual, but I can't find a definition of it, nor find it in FET menus). So a group would be attending many activities at a time, which is not possible right now in FET. Maybe if it represents a structural problem FET could define internally subgroups, but being transparent for the user. This activity group should have a user defined name to identify (for example "Optative 1"). And then inside, each subactivity would have the real subject ("French language", "Arts", etc.). In this way the user would avoid to define such a great number of subgoups, and in the teacher's timetable everything would appear right and clear, with no reference to the activity group, just to his own subactivity, and with information of room besides of the group (opposed to the pseudoactivity solution to book the room).
In the group timetable, the common activities would appear as always, and the others would appear with the activity group name. Then parallel timetables with blanks in the common activities and one of the subactivities for the rest could be printed . So we would need as much timetables as the maximum number of subactivities of the largest activity group. Maybe the subactivities could be diplayed in couples to avoid many timetables, as it happens now with group timetables and "same day+hour" activities.
These parallel timetables could be hanged up on the classroom board, and, of course, each pupil should know which of the subactivities has to attend. I think this display should be clearer than the footnote legend style. I don't know if I have explained it clear enough, but if not I could send a spreadsheet with an example.
Also, with this solution, if no activity group are defined all works as before, so we would avoid the problem commented by Liviu of people not needing it.

By the way, I don't know, Liviu, what do you mean wich the matrix of grups and subgroups. Is it explained in any other trhread or anywhere?

Thanks again,

  ßingen.

Hi,

I'm newbie using FET, but first of all I want to congratulate and thank for the effort and the result.

I have to do the timetable of my school for the first time. I want to put an example of a year in our school.

First of all we have two groups, A and B, each one with its own classroom. The second category in importance is a small group of students with especial educative needs called the "diversity" group, with pupils from both groups A and B. I've created both categories: 1) A & B; 2) Normal & Diversity. So I have 4 subgroups: AN, AD, BN & BD. This special group takes apart classes of Maths, Catalan language and Spanish language, so when group A (Normal) is attending, for example, Catalan, group B is attending Spanish and Diversity group Maths. So the same teacher of each subject can have all pupils of this year. With a restriction of same day+hour it works nice in FET. No problem until here. The diversity division does not affect in any other subject than catalan, spanish and maths.

But then, in the same year, we have the following situations:
- Two hours a week all pupils of the year redistribute mixed in four groups to attend 4 different optative subjects.
- In every group (A&B), once a week, the pupils separate into 2 subgroups to attend english language, with different teachers of course. The other two hours of english language don't have this separation.
- The same happens once a week with Computers subject, but in addition, in the B group, a small group does Religion instead of Computers.
- Once a week, in a two hours activity in the lab the group splits again in a similar way, but doing two different subjects. While one half is doing Science, the other one is doing Technology, in different labs, with different teachers.
- Finally, in the B group, there is another small group, called "Wellcome", for students newcoming to spain, that in some subjects get out from the normal class to do a language immersion.

My problem is that if I try to define all these as subgroups, I get a lot of them, and I have to do it manually, because in the year division I can only define 3 categories. Also, I should print a timetable for each subgroup, I would like to have just one timetable for A group and one for B group. In the worst case I could admit two timetables for each group, considering the diversity division.

The other option I have considered after reading the manual and the forums is to define for each group and division with only one subject and several teachers, and then pseudo-activities to book the rooms with a same day+hour restriction. But the problem with this is how is displayed the information, when I print the timetable for each group. For example, which name should I put to these special subjects? It won't be clear in the timetable which teacher and where does which activity.

In my school they have been using a software called "gp-Untis" (not free) until now. I attach an html file (although when output in pdf it looks better) of how is displayed such a situation with this piece of software.

Thanks again,

  ßingen.