Hi
I am having a problem allocating rooms to activites.
Example, I have a year 7 with two groups 7A and 7B. As a single activity they do maths, two teachers, two rooms. The capacity of the two rooms is sufficient but I am getting an error.
"Cannot generate timetable, because for activity with id==68 you have no allowed preferred room (from the allowed number of students and preferred room(s) constraints)"
I am using the subject maths has prefered rooms option. What am I doing wrong?
thanks
Each activity can take place in a single room, even if the activity has two students sets. A single room can host at most an activity at a time slot.
How did you enter the activity. A single activity with the whole year 7 (or both classes 7a and 7b)?
The better way is to enter 2 activities for this.
If the activities most be placed at the same time, then use a same starting time constraint.
But please thing carefully why they should be simultaneously. If you say: "It must be simultaneously, because classes 7a and 7b are divided into "very good" and "average only" math skill students, then you might be wrong! In that case dividing the year into those groups might be much better (depending on your dataset).
Thanks for the reply. So one actiivty cannot have two or three rooms?
The activity is for 7A and 7B, two teachers and the subject maths. I used the space-subject Maths has a preffered set of rooms and listed the two rooms. I think the maths classes must be simultaneous, the sets are only for maths we have different groups for 3rd language and options.
When I do 3rd language option I planned to put 7A and 7B in one activity with three teachers, then I want to use three rooms. Again, simultaneous as all students do either French/German or Spanish. Is it better to do three activites simultaneoulsy?
On an earlier attempt I did split into maths groups 7S and 7H, but I need the timetable for 7A and 7B as a class and the 7s 7h came out as a different timetable, not combined.
Thanks for the very fast reply.
I have been reading ChicagoPiano tuners queries and my situation sounds a lot like his/hers.
Quote from: Sue Moran on July 20, 2015, 01:32:10 PM
So one actiivty cannot have two or three rooms?
Correct. In worst case you can add a pseudo activity simultaneously. But that should normally never be needed.
Quote from: Sue Moran on July 20, 2015, 01:32:10 PMThe activity is for 7A and 7B, two teachers and the subject maths. I used the space-subject Maths has a preffered set of rooms and listed the two rooms.
FET will select only one out of that 2 rooms.
Quote from: Sue Moran on July 20, 2015, 01:32:10 PMI think the maths classes must be simultaneous, the sets are only for maths we have different groups for 3rd language and options.
When I do 3rd language option I planned to put 7A and 7B in one activity with three teachers, then I want to use three rooms. Again, simultaneous as all students do either French/German or Spanish. Is it better to do three activites simultaneoulsy?
Why don't you split the year into courses? That is normally the best solution.
So the automatic split feature of FET and split year 7 in:
1: A, B
2: good math, average math
3: French, German, Spanish
My student structure is not working and I want to do what you advise. This is the situation, year 7 has two tutor groups A and B, the timetable will be published for 7A and 7B seperately. For some classes 7A and 7B mix up into two or three different groups. When I did this before I ended up with a timetable for 7A and 7B but also 7S 7H (Maths) and 7c 7F 7G (3rd lang) and not a 7A which also contained the maths lessons and 3rd lang lessons. Help!
Year 7 have French/German/Chinese 3 times a week. Do I have to add the same start time constraint to individual activities or can it be done as a group?
Go to FET->Data->students->years
press "add": and add year "7"
select year 7 and press "Divide year per selecting categories"
increase the number of divisions/categories from "1" up to "3"
press "add" and add name "A"
press "add" and add name "B"
now select the 2nd Division. So press the "2" tab. That tab should be empty. Only the "1" tab should contain "A" and "b".
press "add" and add name "good math"
press "add" and add name "average math"
now select the 3nd Division. So press the "3" tab. That tab should be empty.
press "add" and add name "French"
press "add" and add name "German"
press "add" and add name "Spanisch"
now think a bit: you maybe need that also for religion?
so maybe increase the number of division up to 4 and also add "christian", "jew" and "moslem" (or something like that)
Then press "ok".
Now there should be a lot of groups and subgroups added automatily. You normally only need to use the groups now. Don't touch the subgroups. FET need them to know if activities can be simultaneously or not.
Quote from: Sue Moran on July 20, 2015, 02:46:06 PM
Year 7 have French/German/Chinese 3 times a week. Do I have to add the same start time constraint to individual activities or can it be done as a group?
if you have a good students structure (like i described in previous mail) you normally doesn't need to add such constraints.
if you add such a constraint please have a closer look. there is a checkbox called "Add multiple constraints". If it is unchecked it will use only the selected subactivity. If you check that box, then it will also add the other subactivities (so the whole activity).
Thanks, I have done the splitting the same start time. It seems to be doing what I want except for how it looks as a timetable. When I look at 9A I can see standard maths and french only, and the names of those teachers, not the higher maths, chinese and german, though they are timetabled at the same time.
i fear i don't understand. if you check the "9a" timetable, then there should be always one activity per slot if it is a "9a" activity. If it is a math or language activity, then there might several activities at the same time, because 9a is "splited" by math and language.
maybe attach a screenshot of what you can see or sent me your fet file by E-Mail.
Thanks for your help.
ok. I got the file.
the students structure is fine.
can you please repeat your question? maybe you didn't checked the 9a timetable and you only checked the subgroups table from fet->timetable->view(students)? You can see the subgroups there only and see to press each subgroup.
If you want to see the whole 9a timetable, then please check the groups html timetable in the fet result folder or go to:
fet->timetable-> Print: Now switch to "group" and "Preview". So you can see the whole 9a timetable.
just 2 improvements:
a) it isn't subject "French/German/Chinese"
add 3 subjects. "French", "German" and "Chinese". then set the correct subjects at the activities. So replace for example at activity with sudentsset "9 French" the subject "French/German/Chinese" by "French" only. After you done all changes delete the subject "French/German/Chinese". Don't delete it at the beginning, because it will also delete the activities then.
b) i am pretty sure you don't need the same starting time constraints! maybe you currently thing it is needed, but you will see that it isn't needed as soon as you entered all data. You might get much better timetables without that constraints.
Thanks a lot, that all makes sense. I have not been looking at the timetable correctly so I will do it the way you suggest and see how it looks. I tried using French/German/Chinese and thats when I realised it wasnt going to work, there are probably a few subjects for me to delete. ;D
So my next step is the student structure for years 12, I would really appreciate your wisdom. In year 12 students have 7 option blocks from which they choose one (or none) subject only.
Suggestions?
it's depending on your dataset.
so far it look like your school isn't too big. so i hope there are not many subject subjects per block. in that case you can do it similar to year 7.
if there are to many subjects per block and there are also to many blocks, then this variant will produce to many subgroups and that will slowdown the algorithm pretty much.
in that case it also depend on if there are gaps allowed for students or not.
variants are:
- adding there whole year into a single activity. the timetable won't look well, but will be correct. you sadly need to add pseudo activities with same starting time if you need to care about rooms.
- import the data from your school administration software. you might already have all needed data in that software. that might give the perfect dataset. sadly a converter is needed for that. i might have a view if that is possible or not if you tell me your school administration software.
The school is small, in year 12 there are about 30 students. Our school uses Double First Engage mis, I don't know if you have heard of that.
These are the option blocks
A Biology/Phys
B Economics/Chemistry
C French/German/Chinese/Geo/PE
D Maths/Art
E Spanish
F DT/Biologia/Mates
G fisica/Quimica
The students can have free lessons. Rooms are an issue.
I am not sure what data set I need, do I have more reading to do?
Definitely you would not like to use the automatic division of year 12. I think you should add 30 subgroups as students, and add groups (12 Bio, 12 Phys, 12 Eco, 12 Chem, 12 French, etc.) containing the necessary subgroups.
but using the automatic split feature is also not critical in you example. it will create only 2*2*5*2*1*3*2=80 subgroups. i have got much more subgroups in my dataset. so i think it is ok to use it, because Livius suggestion mean more work. (ok, generating will be at bit faster with his variant, but i think it isn't critical with your dataset.)
Quote from: Volker Dirr on July 21, 2015, 06:58:24 PM
but using the automatic split feature is also not critical in you example. it will create only 2*2*5*2*1*3*2=80 subgroups. i have got much more subgroups in my dataset. so i think it is ok to use it, because Livius suggestion mean more work. (ok, generating will be at bit faster with his variant, but i think it isn't critical with your dataset.)
In fact 240 :) and I suppose Spanish has also other divisions, for advanced/beginner.
Yes, 240 is not much. I rushed my answer.
oh yes, i for the 3. so 240. but i bet Spanish will not be separated for beginners and advanced. it is a small school only. so other students will have free at that block.
Quote from: Volker Dirr on July 21, 2015, 07:09:44 PM
it is a small school only. so other students will have free at that block.
Also in this case Sue Moran needs to add options for two Spanish sections, because of students gaps.
I think she already done her curse planning and that is the final result. So i still bet she won't need more.
Thanks to you both, I think I am ready to give it a go now. I appreciate the help and advice.
My timetable is coming together now, lessons I thought had to be timetabled together are coming out as expected without adding time constraints. I have a new question about prefered rooms. If a teacher teaches two subjects what is the best way to deal with that. For example teacher V preferably teaches Maths in one room and Chemistry in another, what is the best way to deal with this?
thanks
At my school i deal it like this:
Chemistry: Space constraints -> subject -> subject has preferred room
(Because every chemistry teacher use the same room for chemistry)
Maths: Space constraint -> teacher -> a teacher has a home room
(Because Maths take place in "his" maths home room. Other maths teachers (maybe except one other if he need to share room) teach maths in other rooms.)
(The home room constraint will be only used if there is no other space constraints set to an activity. So don't enter the chemistry room in this home room constraint. only the maths room)
So in fact i use only "subject" and "teacher home room" constraints to care about rooms.
So "subject" constraint at my school are: chemistry, physics, biology, sport, art, technology
i care about all other activities by using the teacher home rooms constraints. (So there are no "subject" constraint for German, English, French, Maths, religion, geographies, history, ...)
We have got less rooms then teachers. So e few teacher need to share the same room. But that is no problem. I just need to use good pairs.
Thanks, I will do the same as you.
What if a teacher prefers one of three rooms? Teacher A in any lab1/2/3
Can rooms be allocated to an activity from the rooms not in use?
You only need to use a roomS constraint and select all 3 rooms. FET will only select one free room out of the roomS.
So, usually the chinese teacher prefers room 2.5 but for year 7 he must go to their homeroom. Is it best to use the activity space constraint?
Year 7 have a home room but sometimes they must leave to go to art/sci etc. How should I deal with this?
Also, I need to minimise their movement. Suggestions?
I have a mistake in my year 12 structure >:(, again. Is there no way to change the student structure without having to retype all activites again? I suspect I already know the answer, I am just hoping...
thanks :)
Quote from: Sue Moran on July 30, 2015, 09:52:16 AM
I have a mistake in my year 12 structure >:(, again. Is there no way to change the student structure without having to retype all activites again? I suspect I already know the answer, I am just hoping...
thanks :)
Use a recent version of FET (I don't know exactly when this was corrected), and when dividing automatically the year 12 keep the exact groups names (plus-or-minus the changed groups).
Edit: In version 5.25.0 this was improved/corrected.
Quote from: Sue Moran on July 30, 2015, 09:52:16 AMSo, usually the chinese teacher prefers room 2.5 but for year 7 he must go to their homeroom. Is it best to use the activity space constraint?
You can add an activity tag. Maybe call it similar to the room name. So call it "2.5".
Then add that tag to all chinese activities that should take place in that room.
also add a "subject+activity tag" space constraint. Subject "Chinese" + tag "2.5" should use room "2.5".
so you don't tag Chinese activities in year 7. So that activities will take place in the teachers home room.
Quote from: Sue Moran on July 30, 2015, 09:52:16 AMYear 7 have a home room but sometimes they must leave to go to art/sci etc. How should I deal with this?
Many different possibilities. Just adding them take more or less time, depending on your dataset, so i can't tell you which one is the "best" in your case. Read the following ones, think a bit and select the best one.
You can
a) just use "activity preffered room" for that art/sci. activities.
b) do it similar to the "chinese"-trick. So use "subject+tag" space constraints.
c) if other students (other years) also use that room for art/sci: just use subject preffered room
Quote from: Sue Moran on July 30, 2015, 09:52:16 AMAlso, I need to minimise their movement. Suggestions?
You can use building constraints for that. So for example add all "home" rooms into Building "A". Add other/special rooms (like art/sci) into Building "B". (even they are in the same building). Then add a constraint like "max 2 building changes per day".
Be careful with those constraints. it might be very difficult to solve such timetables.
hmmm... just one question. Are you using "teacher home rooms" or "students home rooms". In normal case it is the best to use only one variant. And care about all other rooms doesn't fit with that rule by other space constraints. (like subject, subject+tag or activity.)
It's no problem if a "home" room constraint and an other constraint (like "subject") contradict . FET will ignore the "home" room constraint in that case.
but you must care that "other" constraint don't contradict each other. So a "subject" room constraint isn't allowed to contradict an "activity" room constraint. FET won't be able to solve in that case.
I am using teacher homerooms as this works perfectly most of the time. One year group is different, they don't move often. I am trying the tags now
I seem to have changed the student structure without mishap, thanks for that.
I want to alter the groups in year 7 but when I go there it shows me the groups for year 12 which was the last one I edited. Any suggestions?
thanks
FET sadly remember only the last settings. so it is currently "normal" that you see the year 12 stuff only.
Just do not press "ok" now, because settings in year 7 and 12 are different and you will lose many (all) activities from year 7 then.
Just correct the settings as they should be in year 7. After that press "ok".