Well
I am still entring data...
one question about room
we have
9 general purpose rooms
2 physics laboratory/rooms
2 biology laboratory/rooms
Activities from subject "bio" can take place only in one of the two biology rooms
Activities from subject phys can take place only in one of the two physics rooms
All other activities from remainnig subjects can take place in any available room including biology and physics rooms when they are free
How to input this into avtivities !?
You need to add space constraints: subject preferred rooms, subj. physics, 2 rooms: phys 1 and phys 2. Then subject biology, the same procedure. Then, you can ignore the rest of rooms or add for each subject preferred rooms = list of all rooms.
well
I am also reading in Volker Dirr user's manual ;) [smiley=wink.gif] :)
maybe ?I should use
Space constraints (subject) → A subject has a set of preferred rooms
But what about other subjects ( the most) whitch can take any available room ?
Add for each subject preferred rooms = all rooms, or add home rooms for students or teachers (not for both). If an activity has no preferred room, then it will go in a home room (so preferred rooms override home rooms) - this will be OK in your case, the bio and phys go where they need.
QuoteYThen, you can ignore the rest of rooms or add for each subject preferred rooms = list of all rooms.
I can't ignore them
since I want to ensure that no more than 13 activities (9+2+2) are scheduled at the same time in the whole school
sorry sorry sorry
I am posting too fast :-[
so I asked a question you juste answred it a second ago
No problem :-)
Please let me know your results. I am interested.
Finaly & Now the data input is over :)
before timetable generation , I would like to know
QuoteAdd for each subject preferred rooms = all rooms, or add home rooms for students or teachers (not for both). .
shall I add home room to teachers or students, because I want the FET to assign the same room to the teacher during the half day
for example, if FET assign the room 4 to teacher fr1 at 08H00-09H00 lesson, this teacher should stay in room 4 for the followinfg working tree hours
In other words, students who change room not teachers
QuoteIn other words, students who change room not teachers
So you have teacher home rooms.
that is possible if you have equal or more rooms then teachers. so every teacher (that is not only teaching in special rooms) has his own home room.
if you have more teachers then rooms, then some teacher must share a home room. just set the same home room to 2 teachers (several times).
Read more about that at http://www.timetabling.de/manual/FET-manual.en.html#id_46
Quote
So you have teacher home rooms.
No
unfortunatly, I have more teachers than rooms
But I know from previoud yeas that rooms can hold the total amount of working hours
Now the problem is how tell FET to assign same room ( no matter witch is) to a given teacher for a number of contiguous activity in a given day
please take a look at this image
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9136/rooms4teacherszi7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
FET assign room 3 at 08H00 then room 5 at 09H00 then room1 ...
it is possible that another teacher got room5 at 08H00 and then room3 at 09H00
So why not the first teacher stay at room he get at first lesson (room3) whilme the second stay at room he got at 08H00 (room5) without interchanging them !!?
Should I put every single room to a different "artificial" building ? then set constraint "Max building changes per day for teacher" to 0 !!?
At our school are 31 teachers, but we have only 24 teacher home rooms!
that is possible!
3 teacher don't need a home room, because they teach only in special rooms.
so 28 teacher just have 24 rooms.
so i just set 4*2 teachers into the same teacher home room!
you just need to think a little bit about which is the best combination :)
Ok. In your image it look like you have much more teachers then rooms.
Your building hint might be possible.
You should think about teachers that can share a room. Give that teachers the same home room. So all that teachers don't need to change the room. if you are lucky, then every teacher can get his own (shared!) room.
Quoteso 28 teacher just have 24 rooms.
I fear this is not possible in our school
we have
3 teachers sharing one special room
another 3 teachers sharing one special room
one teacher has a home room
and
22 teachers sharing 10 rooms !!
Nevertheless if you want to avoid that teacher change rooms you can give at least 10 teachers a home room. so that 10 teacher will never change the room.
maybe you can see some other teachers, that can share a room with one of the 10 privileged teachers.
so of course there are still a few teachers left. maybe you can try your building hint with the last teachers.
I was reading and the building changes just passed through my mind. Yes, alfaromeo is right, add a building for each room and use max building changes per day for teachers. I think it should work.
Please try with this trick and let us know your results.
Maybe you can also ease the problem if the biology teacher also teach his other subjects in the biology lab.
Maybe similar with a physics teacher.
QuoteMaybe you can also ease the problem if the biology teacher also teach his other subjects in the biology lab.
Maybe similar with a physics teacher.
unfortunatly Yes !! that is already the case
I think that with this two hints:
1-
QuoteNevertheless if you want to avoid that teacher change rooms you can give at least 10 teachers a home room. so that 10 teacher will never change the room.
maybe you can see some other teachers, that can share a room with one of the 10 privileged teachers.
so of course there are still a few teachers left.
2-
QuoteI was reading and the building changes just passed through my mind. Yes, alfaromeo is right, add a building for each room and use max building changes per day for teachers. I think it should work.
room problem is solved
Now I am facing other problem described here :
http://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/forum/index.php?topic=209.0
I was optimistic about room assignement
Yes, I have a very good working timetable, but room assignement for teachers is a little bit random,
Teacher has to change room 1 or two or 3 times in a day !!
unfortunatly, no hints works for me
with the building hints ( maxximum change of building per day for all teachers=0) , FET was unable to go beyond 315 out of 323 placed activities
in other words, FET was about to generate the perfect timetable
only 8 remaining activities need to be placed :'(
I am quite sure that if a teacher T1 was given a room R1 on first timeslot, this room will be available for him during the next 3 timeslots
So why,at second timeslot, this room R1 was given to teacher T2 , while the room R2, the T2 had on first period, is given to T1 !!?
Please try to let FET some more to calculate, maybe it can solve it (let it one hour or more).
Also, please try with max building changes per day 1, maybe you can obtain this way a timetable.
FET can switch rooms for teachers if you don't constrain it (by max building changes).
Please send me your latest file, I'll try from home to see what I can do.
Maybe you can lower teachers max days per week (increase days or remove constraints).
QuotePlease try to let FET some more to calculate, maybe it can solve it (let it one hour or more).
.
Ok I will give it more time
Quote
Also, please try with max building changes per day 1, maybe you can obtain this way a timetable.
.
But I already have a timetable !!!
this "room assignnement" issue is the sole
minor problem I still have
The other problem is that I dont know how to diagnose those remaining 8 activities with options:
- see initial order of placing theactivities....
- see difficult activities without stopping simulation...
EDIT: with
maximum building change per xweek for all teacher ---> 2
FET is now able to reach : 320 out of 323 placed activities !!!
I meant to make max building changes per day 1 and obtain a better timetable than with no max building constraints.
I think you cannot get help from the impossible activities dialog or initial placing of activities. It is just that your timetable data might be too constrained. Try to lower some constraints (max building changes 1 instead of 0 or weaker max days per week for teachers).
I'll check your latest file. It will take about 30 minutes, I am now compiling your variant of FET (I removed it from my hard disk because I don't want to mix versions accidentally).
I tried for your sample with max building changes per day for all teachers 1, and it solved in under 2 minutes. I am attaching the file and data+timetable.
Please let me know.
LATER EDIT: It does not solve for max building changes 0 for teachers, I let it 30 minutes. It is maybe impossible. You need to reduce some constraints. Maybe put for more important teachers max building changes 0 and rest 1 and try again
this will need same trial and error !!
I simply deleted the maximum building change constraint !!
Then, I set :
maximum gaps per wek for all teachers ---> 1
FET solve it very quickly
there was only a total of 2 gaps
one for teacher fr3
and another one for teacher eng1
the great good news is that every teacher from the first 13 teachers in the list has a uniqur room in a given day
only the last 5 teachers in the list have to change rooms in some days !!!
So it is a fair deal : paying 2 gaps to have a homogenous room assignement !!!
my question: why FET did it for 13 rteachers without any building constraint !!!!!?
Quotethis will need same trial and error !!
I simply deleted the maximum building change constraint !!
Then, I set :
maximum gaps per wek for all teachers ---> 1
FET solve it very quickly
there was only a total of 2 gaps
one for teacher fr3
and another one for teacher eng1
the most good news is that every teacher from the first 13 teachers in the list has a uniqur room in a given day
only the last 5 teachers in the list have to change rooms in some days !!!
So it is a fair deal : paying 2 gaps to have a homogenous room assignement !!!
my question: why FET did it for 13 rteachers without any building constraint !!!!!?
You obtained this by chance or you didn't remove all buildings changes constraints.
You can leave max gaps 1 per week for teachers and add buildings changes 0 for teachers and see if you get a timetable.
Quote
You obtained this by chance or you didn't remove all buildings changes constraints.
You can leave max gaps 1 per week for teachers and add buildings changes 0 for teachers and see if you get a timetable.
sorry
I did a mistake
yes building constraint is still in place only for the ........ lucky 13 teachers :) :) :) :)
I saw in the file that you set max gaps per week for students 1, is that all right for your data? I think you need 0.
Also, you added teachers max gaps 0, which means all teachers have maximum gaps 0. The two other teachers which get max gaps 1 are also constrained to have 0 gaps, so the 1 gap is useless constraint. I cannot change that, although I would like it, but some people might make mistakes. And also max gaps for teachers means that all the teachers should have these max gaps, no matter the other constraints.
LATER EDIT: So, please remove the max gaps constraints for all teachers and add for each teacher the required max gaps with teacher max gaps.
QuoteI saw in the file that you set max gaps per week for students 1, is that all right for your data? I think you need 0.
.
Yes. this was another mistake :-[
I was in a hurry because I want to finish the timetable before tomorrow afternoon !!!
please take a look et the attached file
I am not sure, but I think I solve it in a simple way
we have 20 teaches and 10 rooms
I set every two teachers to one home room !!
A little problem: the two teachers cant work at the same time.they have to work on dfferent days. but this doenot rise any problem right now
I cannot check it for now, because I again removed the alfaromeo FET version from my hard disk.
But if you say that it works OK, I don't need to check it.
I am a little bit puzzled, because if it works like this it should also work with teachers max building changes per day = 0. Maybe you lowered other constraints or, in the variant with max building changes, you specified less preferred rooms.
I saw your newest file. You have teachers max gaps per day = 0, this means that your teachers cannot have any gaps per day or per week. Please be more careful.
QuoteBut if you say that it works OK, I don't need to check it.
.
it works, and timetables were published today !!
Quote
I am a little bit puzzled, because if it works like this it should also work with teachers max building changes per day = 0. Maybe you lowered other constraints or, in the variant with max building changes, you specified less preferred rooms.
Here is the only change I made :
in order to tell FET about limited room ressources, in previous files, I used:
subject space constraint ---- > subject has a set of preferd rooms
Then, I set all teacher's subjects to all 10 rooms
In the newest file, I replace this constraint by linking every two teachers to one home room
QuoteI saw your newest file. You have teachers max gaps per day = 0, this means that your teachers cannot have any gaps per day or per week. Please be more careful.
Yes, you are right ! it is highly restrictive, but there is no way to tell FET, that we tolerate a
total of 4 or 6 gaps in the 29 teacher's timetables
there is only a way to tell FET that we tolerate one gap per teacher, which means that, having a total of 29 teachers, we will possibly get a total of 29 gaps,
Quote
Here is the only change I made :
in order to tell FET about limited room ressources, in previous files, I used:
subject space constraint ---- > subject has a set of preferd rooms
Then, I set all teacher's subjects to all 10 rooms
In the newest file, I replace this constraint by linking every two teachers to one home room
I think you were wrong in the previous files. I think you should have made preferred rooms for each subject to all the rooms, not only to R1...R10
I am sure that building changes should also work.
Quote
QuoteI saw your newest file. You have teachers max gaps per day = 0, this means that your teachers cannot have any gaps per day or per week. Please be more careful.
Yes, you are right ! it is highly restrictive, but there is no way to tell FET, that we tolerate a total of 4 or 6 gaps in the 29 teacher's timetables
there is only a way to tell FET that we tolerate one gap per teacher, which means that, having a total of 29 teachers, we will possibly get a total of 29 gaps,
If you say 0 gaps per day, it is the same as 0 gaps per week :-)
You could have added for each teacher max gaps per week 0 (so one constraint for each teacher), with exception of more allowing teachers (say 5 teachers), which have 1 gap per week.
Quote
I think you were wrong in the previous files. I think you should have made preferred rooms for each subject to all the rooms, not only to R1...R10
I am sure that building changes should also work..
SORRY !!! I didnot understand the difference
Quote
You could have added for each teacher max gaps per week 0 (so one constraint for each teacher), with exception of more allowing teachers (say 5 teachers), which have 1 gap per week.
gaps for teachers are allowed by National standart, but is considered here as a VERY bad thing
while gaps for students are simply prohibited
I dont know If I made my self clear enough in mu post above:
I cant designate the "bad" teachers in advance, who will get gaps (GAT Gaps Allowed Teachers)
I prefer to let FET do it !! so it will put gaps whenevr necessary to unlock the calculation in real time !!
but I ned to ensure that tatal amount of gaps doesnot exceed a given value
so a double constraint like this will be very usefull :
total Maximum allowed gaps for all teachers + maximum allowed gaps for a teacher /all teacher. wich it is already available in FET)
Quote
so a double constraint like this will be very usefull :
total Maximum allowed gaps for all teachers + maximum allowed gaps for a teacher /all teacher. wich it is already available in FET)
Very difficult to add. Maybe even impossible.
QuoteQuote
I think you were wrong in the previous files. I think you should have made preferred rooms for each subject to all the rooms, not only to R1...R10
I am sure that building changes should also work..
SORRY !!! I didnot understand the difference
I am not sure that this was the problem. The problem might be that a teacher of physics has an activity in a lab (special room), then goes in another non special room (R1...R10) for other subject. Then FET will count this as a building change.