FET Forum

Hi,
I would like to specify a set of activities are not overlapping but i have  a huge number of activities (430).
Is there another constraint or a deafult settting on subjects to apply my request !!

by default they are not overlapping if they include the same students OR teachers OR room.

Thanks for your reply.
But what if the number of students are not the same and i want to not overlapping !!

it doesn't matter if the number of students is the same or not. you need to add "unique students" as subgroup name and "courses" as FET groups. FET will automatically care about not overlapping.

Please can you explain to me what is the student subgroup name !!

In the students list i have:
<Students_List>
..
<Group><Name>Section-33</Name><Number_of_Students>29</Number_of_Students></Group>
<Group><Name>Section-35</Name><Number_of_Students>27</Number_of_Students></Group>
</Students_List>

In the activities list i have:
...
<Activity>
<Subject>Arabic_Section-33</Subject>
<Students>Section-33</Students>
...
<Id>1</Id>
</Activity>

<Activity>
<Subject>Arabic_Section-33</Subject>
<Students>Section-33</Students>
...
<Id>2</Id>
</Activity>

<Activity>
<Subject>Music_Section-33</Subject>
<Students>Section-33</Students>
...
<Id>3</Id>
</Activity>

<Activity>
<Subject>Art_Section-35</Subject>
<Students>Section-35</Students>
...
<Id>4</Id>
</Activity>

First question: Is the student field in the activities contain an error !?
Second question: When was the data like this i tried to set a constraint ("ConstraintActivitiesSameStartingTime").
So the result was=>  FET warning:The constraint is impossible to respect, because there are the activities with id-s 1 and 3 which conflict one with another, because they have common students sets or teachers or must be not overlapping.

For that reason i made a change in the students list ( set different group name), so the constraint was successfully generated but a new error was occurred in the data view ( overlapping activities ). So now how can i fix this issue and how can i add unique students as subgroup name !!

Regards

Example:

You have got 2 students:
Mohammad selected subject Arabic-1A and subject Mathematics-1A.
Isaac selected subject Arabic-1A and subject Islamic-1A.

Then you need to add 3 groups in FET of course:
"Arabic-1A", "Mathematics-1A" and "Islamic-1A".

And you need to care about correct subgroups now:
Arabic-1A needs subgroups Mohammad and Isaac.
Mathematics-1A needs subgroup Mohammad.
Islamic-1A need subgroup Isaac.

This work fine as long as you have got only subject "Arabic-1A" or if you know exactly the student who will visit that subject.
If you don't know that, you need to use the custom FET-mapr version.

Thanks again,
If you meant by course the subjects_list i did it:
<Subject> <Name>Arabic-1A</Name> </Subject>
<Subject> <Name>Mathematics-1A</Name> </Subject>
<Subject> <Name>Islamic-1A</Name> </Subject>

and the subgroups that you mentioned are in subjects or in students ??

and now what about activities, how should i connect the students group and subgroup to each activity !?

"Arabic-1A" is a group name. Subject name is "Arabic".
subgroups are sub-groups of groups. So you connect subgroups to groups simply by adding subgroups into groups.

Sorry for bothering you sir, but i still have unknown points.
1. You mean i shoud add sub-group in the students list and and in the subjects list !!?
2. I have asked about the connection between activities , subjects and students, this point that make me confused.

So, if you please and if you have time can you declare to me more about the steps that should i follow in students, subjects and activities. And if you can give me an example or an old fet sample to help me .

I'm so thankful

subgoubs can be added only to groups, not to subjects.
if you set up the students structre correct (groups and subgroups) then FET knows automatically that those activities are allowed at the same time or not.

Ahh, so what i have to do now is to set the students group and sub groups as you told me before about Arabic and Arabic-1A .

Ex: let we say that i set student group with two sub-groups.

* group: Arabic; sub-group: Arabic 1-A.

1. Activity for subject Arabic with 6 sub-activities (id's from 1->7)
2. Activity for subject assisted arabic with 6 sub-activities (ids from 8->).
All of them connected to student group Arabic in their activities.
Ex:
<activity>
...
<Id>1 </Id>
<student> Arabic </student>
...
</activity>

..

Till id number 13
<activity>
..
<Id>1 </Id>
<student> Arabic </student>
...
</activity>

Does the structure of students and the connection betw studnets and activities correct !??

And in that structure does the constraint same starting time will set successfully without conflict of same students ?

Thanks alot for your help.

no, not like that. that will work only for a single subject, but not for many. You must do it like i wrote: subgroup is a student name.

OK, so i can connect them through the sub-group student name.

Reference to that scenario the students list must be filled with all the courses i have and if the course has section so i must set it in the sub-group, like the following structure

<Students_List>
<group>
   <Name> Arabic-1 </Name>
   <subgroup>
       <Name> Arabic-1A </Name>
   </subgroup>
   <subgroup>
       <Name> Arabic-1B </Name>
   </subgroup>
</gorup>

<group>
   <Name>English-1 </Name>
   <subgroup>
       <Name> English-1A </Name>
   </subgroup>
   <subgroup>
       <Name> English-1B </Name>
   </subgroup>
</gorup> 

<group>
   <Name>Arts </Name>
</gorup> 
</Students_List>

Is this students structure correct ??

no. still false. if you do it like that the activities of different subjects will always overlap. please do it like i wrote:
the "course"-name is the "group" name.
the "students name" is the "subgroup" name.

Sorry Mr. Volker for my misunderstanding.
students name you talked about is the students tag in the activities list !!?

Let me explain to you what i have.

The course name i have is: Arabic-1, and this course i set it as you wrote in the group name.
<students_list>
<name>Arabic-1 </name>
</students_list>

and the subgroup for this group is Arabic-1A & Arabic-1B which i set them in the subgroups for group name: Arabic-1.

Now is it wrong if i set the students tag in the activities list by the sub-group "Arabic-1A" !!?

If i still false please write to me an example explaining how should be the structure of students and activities.

Thanks

You still didn't used correct subgroups. I attach an example.

Thank you very much for your help and for giving me an example. I used correct subgroups as you wrote and the schedule generated correctly without overlapping.
So now i'm trying to add constraint same starting time but still not working and warning appeared knowing that all the requirements in order to succeed exist.
Also i remove constraint minimum days between activities.

Is there another constraint which obstructs my process ?

Thanks a lot

Here is a fet warning message

i don't know your whole dataset, but i don't think it will obstruct your process. If you delete that constraint, then all activities might be placed at a single say. You are sure you want to have that?

The warning will be correct (i think): you can't place them at the same time, because it conflicts the students. You are sure you setup students subgroups correct. I fear you still didn't set up correct.

Yes that what i need.
I think my set up was correct, because there are no overlapping between activities and you can see the fet warning message that i sent in the previous post.
The students inside each activity are different ( one is "3-33" and the other "4-33") so they must be different unless if there is a problem while using "-" symbol.

Kindly you can see my attached FET to make sure about subgroups.

Sorry that is a very old file format you used. can you please use latest fet file format. i won't read such old files anymore.

Unfortunately i don't have access or permission to do it right now, it may takes a lot of time to send the request to my manager and install the latest version.

Ok. I will wait for a new version. Just let me know as soon as you have got a new version.

Ok sir.
I just want to tell you something about what i did in subgroups.

Group: Arabic has 29 subgroups of students.
Group: Music has also 29 subgroups with same name of Arabic subgroups.

so, there are 2 groups with same subgroups but different group name.

Is this incorrect set up ??

if you done that, then it is impossible to set them at the same time! You still didn't understood my example. please read again my example.

But it can be possible to let students enroll same courses.

Students:
1: Muhammad
2: Isaac
3: Rami

Subjects:
1. Arabic
2. English
3. Music
4. Art

Muhammad,Isaac and Rami can enroll all the above courses.

and i should set 3 groups by the following:

<Group>
<Name> Arabic</Name>
<Subgroup>Muhammad </Subgroup>
<Subgroup>Isaac </Subgroup>
<Subgroup>Rami </Subgroup>
</Group>

<Group>
<Name> English</Name>
<Subgroup>Muhammad </Subgroup>
<Subgroup>Isaac </Subgroup>
<Subgroup>Rami </Subgroup>
</Group>

<Group>
<Name> Music</Name>
<Subgroup>Muhammad </Subgroup>
<Subgroup>Isaac </Subgroup>
<Subgroup>Rami </Subgroup>
</Group>

<Group>
<Name> Art</Name>
<Subgroup>Muhammad </Subgroup>
<Subgroup>Isaac </Subgroup>
</Group>

Is this structure incorrect ??

If the students selected that subjects, then it is correct.
Please remember that in that example all 4 subjects can't never be at the same time, since students Muhammad and Isaac visit all subjects. So FET will never place that subjects at the same time.

If you for example remove from group "Art" Mudammad and Isaac and place an other guy into it (maybe a guy called "Murat"), then FET might place Art at the same time as Arabic, English or Music; because now there are different students.

Yes i got your point, but in my case and what i need to do is to share two courses at the same time with the same enrolled students.
Ex: course Arabic enrolled by Muhammad & Isaac.
Course Assisted arabic also enrolled by only Muhammad & Isaac.
So i have to let two courses start at the same time ( sharing courses to be grouped in the same time slot).

I know that there will be a conflict but our school allow this issue and it's a major constraint.

Is it applicable in another way !!?

you are thinking wrong.

a) Muhammed can only be on English OR Arabic if you do them at the same time. so why do you want to place the same person into 2 different rooms at the same time? that is impossible.
b) FET will place all other activities at the same time if that is needed.

so adding the students that will will give perfect solution, even for very complex high school and universities.

If you know that many courses can be at the same time, why don't you use the automatic split feature? it will generate automatically such subgroups that can be at the same time.

Sorry my point was wrong.

Is it possible to ignore the students set while generating time table !?

Because what i need to do is to generate time table before any selection of courses by students, so the students set are not filled yet.

How can i do it without filling students !?

Thanks

sorry for the late answer. i wasn't home.

i suggest to use the automatic split year feature.