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FET Support (English) => Get Help => Topic started by: Silver on September 15, 2009, 03:12:46 PM

Title: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Silver on September 15, 2009, 03:12:46 PM
Dear Liviu
thanks for "min days per week for all teachers".
very nice.

regards
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 15, 2009, 03:40:15 PM
Does it work correctly? Did you test it?

Also, test it in combination or without: max gaps per day for teacher(s), max gaps per week for teacher(s), min hours daily for teacher(s)
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: silvia on September 16, 2009, 08:10:41 PM
I'm very happy :) I'm going to test it right away  ;D
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: silvia on September 16, 2009, 08:52:38 PM
I have tested this feature and it works, sure it does. The only thing that gives me a lot of problems is this:
I have like 50 teachers. Aproximately 10 of them work part time and should do a min and a max of 3 days. the other 40 teachers work a min and a max of 5 days. if I use this constraint for all teachers, there's no way that the specific restriction of "min/max days for a teacher" works. The min days is exclusive. I should enter min days for a teacher 50 times. Is there a way that min days for all teachers is overwritten by more specific restriction of min days for a teacher?
Is my question clear or is it cryptic?
thanks
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 17, 2009, 06:39:26 AM
Your question is clear, but I don't know how to solve it. Because if a user enters min days for all teachers = 5, then this constraint must be respected no matter of the other constraints (this is the logic of constraints, I mean).
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: silvia on September 17, 2009, 10:36:55 AM
ah, ok, I see. I thought that specific constraints for one teacher overwrite general constraints for all teachers, but I must be mistaken :)
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 17, 2009, 11:22:09 AM
There is a list of constraints, and each constraint with 100% must be satisfied, this is the logic. My logic may be not the perfect one, I'll think about it.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: sstt2 on September 17, 2009, 11:42:20 AM
Hi,
where can i find this option ??

"min days per week for all teachers"
"min days per week for a teacher"

I downloaded fet-5.10.3 just now
and didn't find it

??

Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Chafik Graiguer on September 17, 2009, 12:27:04 PM
QuoteHi,
where can i find this option ??

"min days per week for all teachers"
"min days per week for a teacher"
It is located at:
Time constraints ----> Teacher time constraints
It is the sixth constraint ;)
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers
Post by: Chafik Graiguer on September 17, 2009, 12:30:59 PM
QuoteThere is a list of constraints, and each constraint with 100% must be satisfied, this is the logic. My logic may be not the perfect one, I'll think about it.
I think Silvia's problem is the following:
What will happen for Teachet  T1  if I set:
Min days per week for all teachers= 5
Min days per week for teacher T1 = 3
?

Does the settings for ONE Teacher T1 have priority on settings for ALL ?
Does the setting for a group's memeber override settings for the group?

This is the same question I wrote here:
http://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/forum/index.php?topic=277.0

Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 17, 2009, 01:35:28 PM
QuoteHi,
where can i find this option ??

"min days per week for all teachers"
"min days per week for a teacher"

I downloaded fet-5.10.3 just now
and didn't find it

??


Please get the snapshot for 5.11.0, http://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/download/test/ , it is not available in 5.10.3, because I just implemented it.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 17, 2009, 01:39:04 PM
Quote
QuoteThere is a list of constraints, and each constraint with 100% must be satisfied, this is the logic. My logic may be not the perfect one, I'll think about it.
I think Silvia's problem is the following:
What will happen for Teachet  T1  if I set:
Min days per week for all teachers= 5
Min days per week for teacher T1 = 3
?

Does the settings for ONE Teacher T1 have priority on settings for ALL ?
Does the setting for a group's memeber override settings for the group?

This is the same question I wrote here:
http://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/forum/index.php?topic=277.0


Yes, indeed. I am thinking of it, you are right in a way, but the logic of FET format does not allow to have exceptions for teachers. You are right, it is a bit difficult to add all constraints for all but one teachers.

You can do that: in add teachers min days per week, select 5 days, then in teachers combo box select first teacher. Press Enter. Press down. The combo box will change to next teacher. Press Enter. And so on :-). It is not very difficult.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers
Post by: Chafik Graiguer on September 17, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
I am now more confused than before :(
Here:
http://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/forum/index.php?topic=277.0
I have asked
Quoteis it possible to set Max gaps weekly to all teacher=1
then set Max gaps weekly for Teacher1=0
will teacher1 be protected against gaps, because it is already included in the "All teachers" category ?
and you replied to me:
QuoteAll constraints are respected. So all teachers will have at most 1 gap (exception T1), then T1 will have no gaps.
So I was thinking that I can set any constraint : max gaps or max hours daily or max consecutives..etc for  ALL = x
Then  make exception for a specific teacher/student set by setting:
max gaps or max hours daily or max consecutives..etc for  THIS teacher/student set = y


please, does this general rule is true for all constraint ?
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 17, 2009, 02:23:22 PM
All constraints are satisfied, there are no exceptions. All constraints are independent.

If you have all teachers max gaps per week=1, T1 max gaps per week=0, T2 max gaps per week=2, then all teachers without T1 will have max gaps 1 and T1 max gaps 0.

It is not user friendly this feature, but it is more correct I think.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers
Post by: Volker Dirr on September 17, 2009, 07:12:21 PM
QuoteThe only thing that gives me a lot of problems is this:
I have like 50 teachers. Aproximately 10 of them work part time and should do a min and a max of 3 days. the other 40 teachers work a min and a max of 5 days. if I use this constraint for all teachers, there's no way that the specific restriction of "min/max days for a teacher" works. The min days is exclusive. I should enter min days for a teacher 50 times. Is there a way that min days for all teachers is overwritten by more specific restriction of min days for a teacher?

There are 3 variants possible:

1. variant: like liviu (and you) desriped: add a constraint to every teacher.

2. variant: add a min n days constraint with 4 days to all teachers. also add a min n days constraint with 5 days to each single teacher that need 5 days. (so overall you add 1+40=41 constraints.)

3. variant: add a min n day constraint with 5 days to all teachers. also add an pseudo activity to each of the 10 teachers that also should have min 4 days. that activity must of course lock a whole day (so it might be a little bit more complicated if you also use a midday break or things like that.). so overall you need to add 1 constraint and 10 activitities.
If you don't like the displayed html table in this variant, you just need to load the solution as soon as you generated the final timetable. delete the pseudo activities and the min n day constraint and generate again (that just need a second, because all activities are locked).
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: silvia on September 17, 2009, 07:45:47 PM
yes, Volker, the only possibility would be to add min 3 days for all teachers, min 4 days for 1 teacher, and min 5 days for 40 teachers. I can't add dummy activities because we have 7 hours a day + 2 breaks.

I was wondering if the old teachers constraints worked the same way. I don't have my FET here so I can't check it, but... when I added max gaps per week for all teachers =5 and then max gap for a teacher T1=3, did the specific constraint overwrite the general constraint? I don't remember well, sorry.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 17, 2009, 07:54:12 PM
Yes, all constraints work this way. This seems not a very good thing, as users like you report.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teacher
Post by: Chafik Graiguer on September 17, 2009, 09:44:40 PM
QuoteAll constraints are satisfied, there are no exceptions. All constraints are independent.

If you have all teachers max gaps per week=1, T1 max gaps per week=0, T2 max gaps per week=2, then all teachers without T1 will have max gaps 1 and T1 max gaps 0.

Ok
That's good! this is exactely what I was thinking
Quote
It is not user friendly this feature, but it is more correct I think.
Indeed, it is user freindly. I am glad you confirm  it is working this way :)

So, now, the Silvia's problem is solved !!!
She asked:
Quote
I have like 50 teachers. Aproximately 10 of them work part time and should do a min and a max of 3 days. the other 40 teachers work a min and a max of 5 days.
[...]
I should enter min days for a teacher 50 times
Fortunately, the answer is NO :) you dont need to do so
Then, she asked:
Quote. Is there a way that min days for all teachers is overwritten by more specific restriction of min days for a teacher?
Fortunately again, the answer is YES :)
You can enter Min/Max days per week for ALL teacher = 5
Then select those 10 part time teachers, and make
Min/Max days per week  = 3

There is no need to set Min 5 days for 40 teachers !!

The  same for:
Quotewhen I added max gaps per week for all teachers =5 and then max gap for a teacher T1=3, did the specific constraint overwrite the general constraint? I don't remember well, sorry.
Yes, you can !!
Constraint for a specific teacher override constraint already set for ALL teacher
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 18, 2009, 06:44:55 AM
Quote
Yes, you can !!
Constraint for a specific teacher override constraint already set for ALL teacher

No. The strongest constraint wins. Silvia must add constraints for each teacher.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: sstt2 on September 19, 2009, 02:44:12 PM
I cant use "Command line" With this version !!!
I'm trying to use this command line

" --inputfile=FET.fet --timelimitseconds=36000 --timetablehtmllevel=5 --language=ar"

it was working fine with the other versions up to 5.10.3


how to test 5.11 version useing command line ??
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 19, 2009, 03:33:50 PM
This is a bug, I'll fix it right away. Thank you very much for this bug report!
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: silvia on September 19, 2009, 06:58:11 PM
alfaromeo, I must enter individual constraints because in the case of min days for teachers, the specific constraints doesn't overwrite the general constraint. This only happens in other time constraints, but not in this one.

Liviu, if specific constraints overwrite general constraints in other cases, would it be possible that you make them overwrite also in min days for a teacher?
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 19, 2009, 07:01:36 PM
Quotealfaromeo, I must enter individual constraints because in the case of min days for teachers, the specific constraints doesn't overwrite the general constraint. This only happens in other time constraints, but not in this one.

Liviu, if specific constraints overwrite general constraints in other cases, would it be possible that you make them overwrite also in min days for a teacher?

It was a misunderstanding: specific constraints don't overwrite general constraints. The rule is: stronger constraint wins, or: all constraints are satisfied. It is not nice, I found out recently because of your suggestions. I'll think about it.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 19, 2009, 07:22:50 PM
QuoteI cant use "Command line" With this version !!!
I'm trying to use this command line

" --inputfile=FET.fet --timelimitseconds=36000 --timetablehtmllevel=5 --language=ar"

it was working fine with the other versions up to 5.10.3


how to test 5.11 version useing command line ??

I have just put a new snapshot (to fix this bug), please tell me if everything is OK now.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: silvia on September 20, 2009, 03:39:28 PM
thanks for trying, liviu. i know I give you too much work, sorry  :-[
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: sstt2 on September 23, 2009, 11:33:52 AM
Hi Liviu Lalescu

Great (Y)

Command line is working now


thanks
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: sstt2 on September 29, 2009, 02:34:01 PM
Hi ,
I have an idea for the new version for the command line users

we want to Get the progress status with the command line mode
Mean to Get RealTime log values for the Generating progress
you can Generate RealTime text file with the Generated Activities
then we can read this file to show the user a RealTime list of the Generated Activities
also it will help to find the last Activity at this list to know the diffecult Activity
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on September 29, 2009, 07:44:46 PM
QuoteHi ,
I have an idea for the new version for the command line users

we want to Get the progress status with the command line mode
Mean to Get RealTime log values for the Generating progress
you can Generate RealTime text file with the Generated Activities
then we can read this file to show the user a RealTime list of the Generated Activities
also it will help to find the last Activity at this list to know the diffecult Activity

It would slow the generation. Also it is difficult to add a good function like that (what information should I add?).
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Volker Dirr on September 29, 2009, 07:51:35 PM
writing it in a file will also need very much space on hard disc.

if you use linux you can also see a logging in the shell/command line.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: sstt2 on October 11, 2009, 04:45:16 PM
Quote
QuoteHi ,
I have an idea for the new version for the command line users

we want to Get the progress status with the command line mode
Mean to Get RealTime log values for the Generating progress
you can Generate RealTime text file with the Generated Activities
then we can read this file to show the user a RealTime list of the Generated Activities
also it will help to find the last Activity at this list to know the diffecult Activity

It would slow the generation. Also it is difficult to add a good function like that (what information should I add?).



it would be great work if you make xml file with the initial order of placing activities at the Generating progress start so that we can read this file to know the activities order,
then you can only update text file with the max placed activities and the time of max placed activities.
then: we will find the last activity id at the xml file according to the max placed activities,so we can find the difficult Activity.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Volker Dirr on October 11, 2009, 04:57:13 PM
Quote
it would be great work if you make xml file with the initial order of placing activities at the Generating progress start so that we can read this file to know the activities order,
then you can only update text file with the max placed activities and the time of max placed activities.
then: we will find the last activity id at the xml file according to the max placed activities,so we can find the difficult Activity.

that doesn't work, because the order (can) change while generating.
Title: Re: thanks for "min days per week for all teachers"
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on October 11, 2009, 08:06:29 PM
Quoteit would be great work if you make xml file with the initial order of placing activities at the Generating progress start so that we can read this file to know the activities order,
then you can only update text file with the max placed activities and the time of max placed activities.
then: we will find the last activity id at the xml file according to the max placed activities,so we can find the difficult Activity.

I have added a text file for initial order and text file for max placed activity, for command line version, please let me know if it is OK for you.

PS: Maybe you could think of a donation, as written here: http://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/forum/index.php?topic=30.0