How long a normal elaboration should last? Can I accept a 9 hours elaboration or is better to stop it and try to finish it manually
The record I think is about 42 hours, as Horatiu reported, on a bit older computer, for variations of Timisoara-Economy.
The answer is that it depends. Some difficult files are Bethlen-2007-2009 or Economy-Timisoara-Romania. Or even Germany-secondary-school-2. CONCORDIA in Namibia and Romania-Oradea-FS are interesting cases, where you can get a solution fast or very slow (like 1 minute or 5 hours). Run these and see the behavior.
On the other hand, I had some impossible wrong timetables. They get in 1 second to near finish, then go down, without ever going higher. These are signs of impossible timetables.
I have another case: german-school-1, I tried with max gaps week teachers = 2 and min days between activities with 99.75%. Sometimes it solves, sometimes not. Behavior kind of like in the previous paragraph when doesn't solve.
I cannot recommend manual adjustment. The computer is more careful and faster. I recommend only to juggle with the constraints. But some users prefer manual adjustment.
Thanks Liviu, my timetable reached nearly 420 out of 460 activities after few seconds then 456 after nearly 4 h now after 7 h is still working with 344 out of 460 activities placed. I'll see what can I do with the constraint .... if tomorrow morning has finished. Would you like me to post the file? And it is not completed yet I mean there are still some teacher that I have to couple with subactivities. but I wanted to know haw far I could go by now havin imputed 99% of the activities.
QuoteThanks Liviu, my timetable reached nearly 420 out of 460 activities after few seconds then 456 after nearly 4 h now after 7 h is still working with 344 out of 460 activities placed. I'll see what can I do with the constraint .... wuould you like me to post the file? And it is not completed yet I mean there are still some teacher that I have to couple with subactivities. but I wanted to know haw far I could go by now havin imputed 99% of the activities.
Yes, please post the file (if there are no privacy problems).
If it is already maybe too hard, adding more constraints/activities will be even harder. So, what is your plan?
I'll wait till tomorrow. night brings counsel. I can give you the timetable ... if you manage to erase the surnames and the school name I would appreciate.
I found your problem (using also from the methods of Volker Dirr). How to do this yourself (and for other users) in the future:
1) Timetable seems dubious. Few constraints, few activities, goes up fast then down.
2) Removed not available constraints for teachers. Still impossible, hints at point (1) exacerbate.
3) Removed min days between activities constraints, still impossible, hints at point (1) exacerbate.
4) Tried to remove students interval max days per week constraint. Possible. So, this constraint might be guilty.
5) Removed all constraints but basic, break and students interval max days per week. Still impossible, clearly impossible, hints in point (1) are higher.
6) Removed all students years but 2 and all students groups from 2 but 2 C (idea by Volker). Hints in point (1) are maximum: few activities, simple data, goes instantaneous to 22 but cannot reach 24 placed activities. Press view highest stage timetable, see students timetable. Clear now? :-) Not enough slots, and FET will not report this evident impossibility (unfortunately). Not enough slots, considering students interval max days per week constraint. The 2 C timetable is full morning and the two afternoons, with 2 activities which cannot be placed anymore.
Another note: if the first n activities in the initial order are impossible to place in a timetable, FET will never go past n-1 placed activities.
PS: About your file, if you want to keep it private, please remove it from your previous post, rename the institution and each teacher, and attach it again.
Ok corrected the mistaken activities ... 3 min and 4 sec to complette 461 act. Very good and now let's try to add the teacher in co-presence (it's a teacher that is supposed to look after the practical aspect of the subject and join the (supposed) theoretical teacher) and to raise the constraint! Tanks for the help.
You forgot to rename the institution in your latest file.
all right no problem! Forget 'bout it
Now that I have modified some subactivities adding a teacher assistant ... FET is stuk it does like before but as far as i can see there are enough slots (32 slots for 32 subactivities each class) don't know where can be the problem. I tried to lower some constraint ... but... any suggestion?
I renamed the file, because it was not possible to download it. It is a YaBB bug. In the future, please do not use "+" in the file name.
ok
I will try to see why you cannot attach files containing "+" in their names, it is of course not your fault, but YaBB fault. I'll let you know.
Edited to add: YaBB team replied that there is no patch to solve this problem, and it won't be in the future (probably for YaBB 2.4 which I am using).The YaBB team provided a patch so that attachments with "+" in their name work, see http://www.yabbforum.com/community/YaBB.pl?num=1315570218/10
About your file, I removed all min days between activities constraints, it was solved in ~1 minute.
The original file: with random seed X=123, Y=123, it reached 462/463 in 12 m 35 s, now it is at 25 minutes and still no solution. But it seems solvable.
I modified all min days constraints, by Advanced->Spread->default settings (95% min 1 days, force c i s d). Solved in 3 m 7 s.
Edited to add: c i s d = consecutive if same day (sorry for the weird abbreviation :-) )
Your data is too constrained in min days constraints (for FET). Lower them (in min days dialog or in Advanced->Spread dialog). See if the timetable satisfies you, then increase weights if necessary. Since so many users are satisfied and appreciate that FET does well, I hope you will be satisfied with a solution using even lower weights for min days constraints.
Additional note: if you have two constraints for the same activities, they multiply exponentially. For instance, two identical constraints with 95% are equivalent to one with 99.75%. For two almost identical 95% constraints, but min days = 1 for the first, then 2 for the second, the resulting weight for the one with min 1 days is similar, 99.75% (I hope I am not mistaking). Please see FAQ or other FET help.
whoooww wonderful ... i'll give it a try as soon as I can ... this relieve me a lot! I can go ahead! Whoowww FET for ever! And Liviu for President! :D
Anyway I do not mean to criticize your program it's my fault an my newbiness. I really appreciate it and want to introduce it in my school. If i succeed .. well you'll see... Bye ;)
QuoteI
Advanced->Spread->default settings (95% min 1 days, force c i s d). Solved in 3 m 7 s.
"What's that? C i s d?
:-)
c i s d = consecutive if same day (sorry for the weird abbreviation :-) )
I told you! I'm a newbie ... sometime a little dumb!!! ;) Thanks.
I tried what you suggested and it is wonderfull ... you are right 2 days constraint are a little too much and maybe it is not even necessary! I'll go on with this!
Anyway .. again LLFP!
:-)