FET Forum

Hi Folks

I am totally new to the Forum. By means of videos I managed to
enter simple/easy activities.  However, I am now at a point where, e.g
Class 10A split into Physics and Business Studies.

1. I do not know what to do here.

Secondly, I wish to combine classes 10B and 10C, for  a single subject
and there is a case where the two classes combine for Two subjects.

Please help or point me in the right direction.

Thank you.

crow

I think you need to automatically divide students years by categories. Please read the help regarding this (there is a Help button there and also there is help about that in the FET -> Help -> FAQ).

You might want to post your input file.

Hi Liviu Lalescu

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
I am going to figure it out myself first as I wish to learn ths program.
The more I struggle, the more I learn!

If I cant go any further, I will come back.

Thanks

crow

Hello, crow,

OK, you can come back anytime. I forgot to tell you that the division of the year by categories is done by pressing the corresponding button in the students Years dialog.

You are welcome!  :)

For your second question:

If it is the same subject/teacher at the same time: Just add both classes into the same activity.

If there are different teachers at the same time: Use constraint same starting time.

As a beginner it might also help to read this:
https://www.timetabling.de/manual/FET-manual.en.html

Best Regards

Hi Folks

Thanks for the previous replies.  I really appreciate it.

I read up on/studied most of the sample timetables that came with FET.
I could not manage find something that is similar to my situation that would help.

I did come up with a temporary solution.
Remember that the class 10A had to split into subjects Physics & Business Stud?
I entered another subject called Physics/Business Stud.
This solves my problem, BUT now the rooms does not appear on the printouts.

I do not know, though I tried, how to use categories to my advantage.
I just need to know how create and use categories for the above subject combination.

I have 3 MORE different subjects splits (Geography/Cat; Life Science/History, Maths/Maths Lit)
Just knowing  how to make categories for Physics/Business Stud will really pave the way for me.

Thank you
crow

Hi Folks

I include the file.

Thank you

crow

There are two possible solutions. The (much?) faster one is probably to have less subgroups (the solution with virtual rooms).

I attach the files. When dividing the year, make sure you rename the groups as I did in the screenshot and make the "Separator character(s)" a single space. Then in the activities you can use the groups of students.

I added a virtual room and some constraints in the file with virtual rooms (for L. Mahote I chose room "Room 2").

If you divide the years by categories, you might need to add constraints activities same starting time.

Ask me anything you don't understand.

The default way should be using the split year feature.
Maybe also read chapter "years, groups, subgroups" https://www.timetabling.de/manual/FET-manual.en.html#id_12

Same starting time constraints are (maybe) not needed (Even if many timetable-makers think so in the first moment).

The virtual room trick automatically include in indirect same starting time constraint, but the printed timetable maybe doesn't look as nice as it will look if you use the split year feature.

Maybe also have a look at this:
https://youtu.be/qEuujWuu0oI?t=145

Hi Liviu Lalescu & Volker Dirr

Thank you for your support and prompt responses.
I managed to add another virtual room for Cat/Geo and it is working just fine.
In the Cat/Geo subject there are two teachers, namely J. Brown & X. Ndlovu (8 periods), 10A
However, X. Ndlovu also teachers 4 periods LO to 10A.

The program now struggles to place the 8 periods in the virtual room (Cat/Geo) AND the
4 periods of LO.

Any Ideas?

Thanks

Ps. I Have watched the video suggested by Volker Dirr.
     For now I like the virtual rooms as it is much easier!

Funny thing, the very first time when I entered the virtual room for Cat/Geo,
I actually got a timetable!

Hello, crow,

You can call me simply Liviu  :)

1) Please show us your new file.

2) Did you take care that for L. Mahote I chose room "Room 2"? You might need another room there.

Hi Liviu

Ok, Will do!

Yes I changed L. Mahote to Room 14.

I include the new file.
Thank you.

crow

Room 20 is overused. I decreased from 100% to 99% your space constraint for Cat/Geo, it solved, with 4 activities outside this room, but Room 20 has only 1 slot remaining. See attached screenshot and files.

Hi Liviu

You said that you lowered the weight for Cat/Geo to 99%
Question what is the implication(s) of that?

I have created virtual rooms for the other subject combinations LS/His
and Maths/Maths Lit.

I have now found that some in some periods (For Cat/Geo) the room numbers
appear and in other periods the room numbers does not appear.

Please advise.

I include the file.

crow

Ps. When I started out learning FET, the idea was just to get a timetable first
and later on start experimenting with constraints! Clearly that was not to be!

Hello, crow,

Quote from: crow on May 04, 2020, 08:27:37 AM
You said that you lowered the weight for Cat/Geo to 99%
Question what is the implication(s) of that?

This means that FET might skip this constraint in ~1/100 of cases. This was to prove that your data is impossible, since the timetable of Comp Room is almost full but there remained many activities which were supposed to be but were not placed in this room.

Quote
I have created virtual rooms for the other subject combinations LS/His
and Maths/Maths Lit.

Yes, but you did not use them in these subjects preferred room constraints.

Quote
I have now found that some in some periods (For Cat/Geo) the room numbers
appear and in other periods the room numbers does not appear.

Yes, because the constraint preferred room was skipped in some cases (it has <100.0% weight).

Quote
Ps. When I started out learning FET, the idea was just to get a timetable first
and later on start experimenting with constraints! Clearly that was not to be!

I am sorry for the inconveniences.

Hi Liviu

I am gonna get my act together make corrections and come back to you.

Don't worry, I am learning!

crow

Hi  Liviu

I actually do have a timetable. For now I will just go without virtual rooms (meaning the
room names/room numbers for e.g. a Physics/Business Stud, will not appear on the timetable.

I have one question though. In my time table I have 3 breaks. The first one, at the start of day
is actually an Admin period. I suppose I can 7 Admin periods to each class group, but what is the easiest
way of making the very first "break" (07:30 - 07:40, start of day) an "Admin period" for ALL class
groups and ALL teachers?

I could really use some advice.

Thanks

crow

Hello, crow,

I think you mean you only need to add an activity (split into 7) with all the 6 years (add 6 students sets, the 6 years you have) and all the teachers you have, and constrain it to be only at the first slot.

Hi Iviu

I had done this for  and the following message pops up.
Activity with id=716 has no allowed slot - please correct that

I have done this for Day 1 – Day 7

Time constraint
Activity with id=716 (T:J. Brown,S. Fanekiso,Z. Nombevu,M. Nokonya,V. Ndudane,L. Jacobs,N. Luwaca,M. Cupido,S. Rigala,L. Mahote,A. Mbawuli,D. Stephens,P. Suys,X. Nluvo,Z. Mana,J. Treurnicht,G. Soldaat,S. Gwanya,ZZ,Z. Bobela, S:Admin, AT:Periods, St:Gr 7,Gr 8,Gr 10,Gr 9,Gr 11,Gr 12)
has a preferred starting time:
Day=Day 7
Hour=07:30 - 07:40
Weight (percentage)=100%
This activity is permanently locked, which means you cannot unlock it from the 'Timetable' menu (you can unlock this activity by removing the constraint from the constraints dialog or by setting the 'permanently locked' attribute false when editing this constraint)

Could you please show me your file?

Hi Liviu

Here it is.

Thanks

crow

Easy. See my attached file, my last 8 constraints' comments (the last constraint is active, the other 7 not).

Hi Luviu

Please note the insert. (https://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/forum/"C:%5CUsers%5CA%20Carolus%5Cfet-results%5Ctimetables%5CTo_Keep%5CUntitled.png")


How do I get X - Act id?
I only get as far as Act id when I add the activity constraint "preferred starting times.


Hope you can see the image (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ho38rmhrep1nzrw/Constraint.png?dl=0)


crow


Previously I had the same problem.

Hello, crow,

You can only activate/deactivate constraints in the all time/space constraints dialogs. You can also activate there a filter and sort the constraints alphabetically.

Hi Liviu

Thank you for all help you provided thus far.

Sometimes I forget to say thank you.

I saw a post somewhere where someone asked to get rid of the
activity tags in the timetable.  To circumvent the problem, I simply added
an "empty" activity tag, that is, instead of writing a tag, press the space bar once
and save as an activity tag.

When you select the tag to add to an activity, it may be difficult to know where the tag is.

So I positioned the activity tag between two other tags like so:

Tag 1: periods
Tag 2:            This is where the empty tag is.
Tag 3: lectures

Hope this makes someone's life easier.

Thanks

crow

Hello, crow,

No problem  :)

Your solution is interesting, but newer FET versions have a property for tags, Printable or Not printable, in their dialog.

Hi Luviu

Thank you for your unwavering support!

What exactly does the following Mean?

"Timetable breaks 3 soft constraints, has 2.85 soft conflicts total,
and was generated in 0 hours, 0 minutes and 14 seconds."

If you generate multiple timetables, does it imply the the timetable with
the fewest soft constraints and soft conflict total is the best timetable?

Thanks

crow

You can see the soft conflicts in the conflicts list (timetable view conflicts or in a text file in the results).

Not necessarily lower conflicts timetables are better. Depends on your opinion.

You might want to increase the weight of your constraints from 95% to 99%, to 99.75%, or even 100% if it still solves. You can change multiple constraints min days between activities weights with a single click, in the dialog of the constraints min days between activities.

Hi Liviu

Thanks again for your support.

Can you perhaps direct me to pdf FET manual?

I checked the Internet and a site wants me to pay for a download.

Thanks

crow

Hello, crow,

Volker can tell you about his manual. I am not sure if he has it in pdf format. The link to HTML format is: https://www.timetabling.de/manual/FET-manual.en.html

For curiosity, which is that site/link?

I haven't done a pdf of the manual. I think the html website is enough. But if you want to have it as a pdf, you can just open it with your webbrowser and print/export as pdf.

Hi Liviu

The site is
https://www.scribd.com/doc/311840429/FET-Manual-Www-timetabling

crow

Hello, crow,

Oh, it is Volker's manual. You can get it free from my link above.

We don't get money if you "buy" the download there. You will only pay that webhoster, I don_'t know that guy.
The manual is also pretty old. Read the new one on my page: https://www.timetabling.de/manual/FET-manual.en.html
You don't need to pay me. I pay my webhoster with my private money. A donation to the FET project will help much more.