FET Forum

Liviu

I know that you recently changed FET to export the activity ids for the final timetable. Now I just want to know if it is not possible to export the activities ids also to the activities CSV file and here is my reason.

Currently it is not possible to delete a sub activity if not needed. The only option is to deactivate the activity or to delete and re-enter the complete activity. If I now export the activities after setting a timetable to CVS there is no way to establish if an activity is active or not.

If would be great if the activity id is also exported because that I can use top establish which activities are active or in active for the current timetable.

There are also two variations on the above. If it is difficult to accomplish the above what is the possibility when exporting the CVS file to:

1. Only export active activities. I do not think this will be that diffcylt or
2. Export as currently but then in some other way indicate that an activity is ib active, by for example adding the X.

This will make life much easier. At our institution we calculate different statistics on the output of the timetable that is important for Management.

In short I want an easy way to establish if an activity is active or not by using the activitie CVS file only.

Currently it is difficult to establish if an activity is active or not.

I thank you in advance.

Frans

Volker should answer.

I would like the simplest solution, to export only active activities, but this poses this problem: if you have split activity into 3: A(1 hour, 2 hours, 1 hour durations), if we export only active first two components, then total duration is incorrect.

hmm...

i see some problems:
a) what about active/inactive subactivities
b) what about manualy modifies subactivities (other teachers, students, subject,...)

you also wrote you need that for statistics on the output of the timetable. why don't you just use the timetable.csv to do the statistics? There you have only the active one and there you also have all (even more) information then in the activities file. also no problems with manualy modifies subactivtities there.

Liviu and Volker

I understand your point, but....

I can use the CVS for the final timetable but, you can probably say I am lazy and you can if you want to, it is much easier for me and the purpose that I need it for to use the activities CVS. The following for example will be 6 lines in the timetable CVS while only one line in in Activities CVS: (In the current timetable the activities CVS is app 1000 lines (including inactive activities) while the final timetable CVS is 3000 lines)

Fet 2(M)      CAT      Waily   5      2+2+2

I am only interested in;
Fet 2(M)      CAT      Waily  6

If it is difficult or if it cannot be done I understand, but the reason for my original posting was that it will be much easier for me to use the activities CVS than the timetable CVS. (At our University I work with thousands of students, hundreds of groups and lecturers and I want the easiest way that I can accomplish tasks in the shortest time possible. In addition to this I also work with 4 different campuses and two different faculties.)

If FET can take care of this then I believe that FET will become a very popular and frequently used program world wide.

Anyway thank you very much for the quick reply. It is appreciated.

BTW I use both CVS files.

Kind regards.

Frans

I think i understand that you want to save calculating the total duration youself and you just want it from the activities file, but i didn't say a solution about my problems:
how should i export if a subactivitiy is inactive? (the only thing i know is adding a new column with for example "1+1+1+0" if the first 3 subactivities are active and the last is inactive.)
how should i export if a subactivity is manualy modified? (i don't know how to do that. with only one teacher/student it is possible with the same trick above, but not with more then one teacher/student) Tell me how i should export.

so that will do file complicatet. but csv should be easy. you can use the *.fet file if you need it more exact.

Also it will not help, because it is possible that there are activities exportet in the activities.csv file twice with intent.

Example:
Subject Math is teached 4 hours per week.
at the school it doesn't matter if the students have one or two hours math a day. but they should not have 3 hours a day.

so in the activities file i will add TWO lines:
students,math,teacher,,2,1+1,1,100,1
students,math,teacher,,2,1+1,1,100,1

because this lines care about the min n day constraint like i discriped the situation. so you also must sum that two lines yourself! they have 4 hours math, not two! even it look like that in the first line.

so in my current opinion even if there is a solution to export it in the activities.csv it will not realy help you, because you still need to sum that lines.
so you can sum them also from the timetables.csv now.

I think it is necessary to indicate why the activities are important:

Each quarter, semester or year I received the necessary information from the Heads of Departments. Then I define the activities etc. Make activities inactive or sometimes delete an activity and re-enter.

Before setting the timetable I'll have to make a summary of all the information needed by the Dean of the faculty. He/she looks then at the summary, different things they want, and then adjust workloads, move subjects from one person to another etc. They then provide me with the new information and I adjust the activities accordingly.

Only after the above I set the timetable. In other words the information I needed is before a final timetable is available. Once the final timetable is avaiable I use or can use the current output of the different files from FET.

As said if not possible it is fine with me and if it is only me that want this then I agree that it is probably not worthwhile to be implemented.

Again thanks for reading.

Frans.

do you know the advanced statistic file? why don't you just use that? there you have the total sum.

Volker

Fortunately or unfortunately I am not an experienced programmer.

Quotestudents,math,teacher,,2,1+1,1,100,1
students,math,teacher,,2,1+1,1,100,1

The above is not a problem. If only active activities for example are exported than I know that total duration is 4.

As said I am not a programmer but I understand your problem and that is the way that activities are exported currently.

If I may here is another scenario: Instead of exporting the activities as:

Fet 2(M)      CAT      Waily   6      2+2+2

export it as:

Fet 2(M)      CAT      Waily   6      2
Fet 2(M)      CAT      Waily   6      2
Fet 2(M)      CAT      Waily   6      2

I know that there will now be  three lines in the CVS file instead of one.  If the middle activity is active what about exporting it as:

Fet 2(M)      CAT      Waily   6      2
Fet 2(M)      CAT      Waily   6      0
Fet 2(M)      CAT      Waily   6      2

It is then actually not necessary to export the total duration.

It is now easy to open this file in any spread sheet program and do different calculation easily without worrying abot inactive activities.

Tell me if it is a bad idea as I do not have a clue how complicated it will be or if other users will be interested in something like this.

Thank you for be patience.

Frans.

Sadly it is bad, because the idea of "total duraton" duration is to be a shortcut of the "split duration".

so if i want to enter my example:
students,math,teacher,,2,1+1,1,100,1
students,math,teacher,,2,1+1,1,100,1

i just need to write:
students,math,teacher,,2,,1,100,1
students,math,teacher,,2,,1,100,1

it is the same.

so if split duration is only summing many "1"-duration activities, then you don't need to write that. so it save a lot of time if you enter data by csv.

if i do it with your varaiant, then it is not longer possible to enter data set way and i always need to enter also the "spit duration".

even if i do that (and loose the very nice feature of adding activities very fast) still the manualy modified subactivity is unsolved.

what about the advanced statistics file. i think it should contain all stuff you need.

i also loose the min n day constraint if i do it like you want. so impossible; min n day constraint is to important.

Quotedo you know the advanced statistic file?

Yes I know these files although I did not study them thoroughly. Are inactive activities excluded?

One of these files of mine for example has 300 rows and 270 columns and are in html format, where the CVS file has say 1000 rows and 4 columns, much easier to manage.

But if it cannot be done I understand and I must then look for another solution to simply things for me.

Thanks.

Frans.

Quote

Quotedo you know the advanced statistic file?

Yes I know these files although I did not study them thoroughly. Are inactive activities excluded?

Inactive files are excluded.

Maybe also have a look at this:
http://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/forum/index.php?topic=630.msg3852#msg3852

you can try with your file.
maybe if i just output a text file with information like in the teachers matrix you have all what you need?!

i am just thinking about a good file format.
i want to have a exact csv format, so maybe i need to repeate a few things and maybe i need to do 3 seperate files.

first of all have a look and maybe also test that feature (activity planning) with your file.
i will think some more about this.

changing the activities file is bad - complicated to much and modified subactivities is still unsolved.
exporting a few csv files in the advanced statistics shouldn't be to difficult and a clean solution.

but first of all please check that files and featue and tell me if you have all you need in that files/feature.

Volker

Thanks. I will have a look, must first download, and then I will let you know.


Frans

don't forget to download latest one (.vd5). Maybe i should remove old one.

Dear Volker

I downloaded .vd5 as you suggested. Just a few questions if you do not mind.

First of all I just want to say that I do not know at this stage what everything is about. Yes I use the Export advanced statistics menu.

Now I do not see any save option so I accept that when one closes the window that the information will be saved or exported. I cannot find such files on my system. So it seems to me that no information is saved. I know that what you are doing is still in an development stage.

I therefore cannot tell you if it is what I want.

Sorry if I am a little slow, but I am working under huge pressure and must deliver something to management within 7 days.

Thanks.

Frans

oh.. you missunderstood. it doesn't constain a save option yet, i just want to know if that data is all you need.

so if i save the table heading (rows and columns) is that enough?
if it enough if i save the second and/or third row of the teachers column in a csv file?

i currentyl think about file formats with that information by this variants:

teacher name, students set, duration

example:
Mr. X,5a,4
Mr. X,7b,4
...

and a file like this:
students set|subject|duration

example
5a,math,4
5a,english,4
...

i think this are the most needed information, correct?
i know there are also other variants. i guess i will implement them, just to have all. filesize will be small.

i also think about variants with activity tags. but i think that it is maybe unneeded. it is needed in the activity planning form, i used it very wise there already.
but in a statistics csv file like the abouve one it is unneeded, i think. do you need information about activity tags in the statistics?

Quoteteacher name, students set, duration

example:
Mr. X,5a,4
Mr. X,7b,4

Yes this is what I need. This information is already available in the current CSV file, but the problem is that one does not know if all 4 hours are active or only 2 or whatever. That is my major problem and the reason for the original posting, but I understand that it will be difficult as explained by you.

Quotestudents set|subject|duration

This I actually do not need. In our institution the same subject are offered in different department and diplomas. So to me this is of no interest, but if it is easy to add one can probably do that as some other users might be interested.

Quote
i also think about variants with activity tags.

This I also do not need.

What I need is quick info on:
Students Sets
Teachers and
Rooms.

Before setting the actual timetable I need the information on Teachers as explained in a previous posting for planning purposes and this is your first proposal namely:

Quoteteacher name, students set, duration

So if necessary Management make changes and the the timetable is set.

Upon obtaining a final timetabe I can use the corresponding (existing) CSV file.

Once again thank you for everything.

Frans

n about rooms is very difficult, because rooms are not calculated at that time and activities might have one out of a lot of possible rooms. so a rooms statistic is difficult to write.

please check one more time if it realy is enough information if you have:
teacher name, students set, duration
because the is no subject included.

if fear a bit also subject is needed to you, but there is a small problem, because there are different variants to export them.

example: you have a teamteaching activitiy with 2 student sets.
so the activity is teached by teacher T1+T2.
they teach students set S1+S2. subject is MATH.

no watch the advanced statistics.
you will see that logicaly this single activity is displayed TWO times in the matrixes.
so also exporting will give 2 lines.

so maybe a better variant is to export that only once.
the small problem if you have entered with intend two times the same activity. i must sum it. no problem so far. but if someone swap the teachers (or students), so maybe T2+T1 in on and in the other T2+T1, then i also need to care about that this is the same.

i just want to check every problem before i start coding.
so do you need also the subject?
if you need also the subject, what do you think is better: exporting 3 files like in the advanced statistics. (so a single team teaching activity is maybe "doubled" in several lines)
or only a single line. that mean of course i need to check for example that T1+T2 and T2+T1 is the same.

Dear Volker

Thank you so much for spending your time on this request. I really do not want you to do programming for only one person.

If the following will help to make thing clear:

I define the activities.
If necessary delelete and or make activities.

Before setting the timetable I must make a summary for Management so that they can establish if each lecturer has a fair load in comparison with orhers. So I must tell them:

T1 has say x number of students and y FET hours per week.

At our institution there are no minimum and maximum loads for a teacher or rather a lecturer. They just want to make sure that the workload is equally distributed.

Quoten about rooms is very difficult

I agree, rooms only become important after the final timetable is set. Then we calculate percentage occupation and percentage utilization.

Quoteteamteaching activitiy

At our institution we seldom, if ever get where T1 + T2 teach the same group the same time (it is actually an impossible activity.) What happens here is that T1 for example teaches S1 and T2 teaches S2. It can or cannot be the same subject. Where both T1+T2 teach say S1 or S1+S2 as one group, then T1 teaches the students say for 8 weeks and then T2 takes over for the next say 6 weeks. (During the first 8 weeks it is possible that T2 can teach somewhere else). The time periods have not to be of the same length.

Quoteso do you need also the subject?

I'll have to think about this. At this moment it seems to me that it is not necessary but I am not 100% sure. I also do not want you to do unnecessay coding.

A quick answer it that you can only export once because as said your example above occurs seldom at our institution.

Kind regards.

Frans

i don't want to code only for you.
i want to get a solution that is useable for as many guys is possible. that is why i also want to think about what is needed if 2 or more teachers teach the same activity.

currently i think the last varinat (with subject and summed) is the best one, but let me (or others) think some more. the other variants are also logical, but without subject some guys maybe can't use it and also getting two lines for a single activity will confuse many guys. so i think last variant is best, even if i need to do some more checks, but let me think a bit more.

ps:
i didn't said rooms statistics is unneeded, i said only it is difficult. i can highly use a room statistics, because we have teacher home rooms and he have more teachers then rooms. so if we get a new teacher, he must share a room with an other teacher. if i have a room statistic (before generating), it will help to find a good room for the new teacher. but saidly it is difficult to code, so i haven't done that yet.