FET Forum

FET Support (English) => Get Help on Your Input File => Topic started by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 07:58:33 AM

Title: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 07:58:33 AM
Hello!
I'm in a quite final state of making timetable. My main concern are uneven terms for certain teachers. I'm aware that this is because of other constraints - certain activities in certain terms or not in certain terms. Then there are other things too, like not many gaps per day or week.

Now the timetable takes 5-7 hours and I'd like have it ready today. So I need siome advise what I could try. For example "lyrpep", "kartar", some others too have difficulties with uneven workload.

So, whats wrong in mny file and what could I try?

This is a 5-term school, so 25 days, 5-terms, 4 hours a day.
Oh, it seems that my file is much too big...

Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 08:00:28 AM
Hello, Mikko,

You can pack (archive) your file and attach it here.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 08:19:43 AM
Hello, Mikko,

I received your email with your fet file.

I am not sure about "kartar", he seemed to have a balanced timetable, but indeed, for "lyrpep" I saw that he has a full first term.

Maybe you can use constraints of type "activities occupy min/max time slots from selection". Select all activities of "lyrpep", and add 10 constraints for him, 5 min, 5 max, selected slots = first term, second term, etc.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 08:22:30 AM
Thanks!
I found that myself too (always asking, not thinking...)
kartar is ok indeed now, but in the previous 150 versions she tend to have uneven terms

So you think that 10 is not too tight to try? I'll do that.

My file is noway secret, but just now I will go on!
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 08:24:21 AM
Sorry, you did not mean max 10, but 10 constarints :D
So busy not having time to read 8)
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 08:25:48 AM
Btw, is there anyway to make constraints as a batch, not making them one by one?
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 08:28:06 AM
Unfortunately, not. Only a FET code customization is possible, or another program to generate the XML fet file portion.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 08:51:20 AM
Maybe I should add in the TODO the constraints of type teacher(s) min/max hours per term.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 09:02:41 AM
Now I have a problem. There is something wrong and I cant find what. Many constraints, too many...

This is what I got now

Please check the constraints related to following possibly problematic activity (or teacher(s), or students set(s)):
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Id: 1960 (    1/6 - kilann,kulout - B1RU - RU - 7A,7B)
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 09:11:35 AM
Oh... X (red) is selected. You made inverse!!!

Please edit the last 10 constraints, and click "Toggle all" in each and OK.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 09:15:42 AM
Baaaad! Thanks.

Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 09:22:11 AM
Now I realize why those colors are not always good. Green makes me think thats ok
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 09:40:12 AM
Quote from: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 08:51:20 AMMaybe I should add in the TODO the constraints of type teacher(s) min/max hours per term.

Certainly that would make life easier as a 5-term timetable maker for 50+ teachers
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 09:56:00 AM
Yes, I agree. I added this in the TODO and I will think of it for the future. If I find sponsors, I will do it rightaway. My price for this feature is 1,600 (one thousand six hundred) euros.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 01:18:14 PM
Hello, Mikko,

I just obtained, after a bit less than 4 hours, two solutions (I generated on 8 threads). I attach them.

PS: Neglect new version warning, 7.2.4 is only on my hard disk for now, and you can open with the current official 7.2.3.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 04:45:50 PM
Quote from: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 09:56:00 AMYes, I agree. I added this in the TODO and I will think of it for the future. If I find sponsors, I will do it rightaway. My price for this feature is 1,600 (one thousand six hundred) euros.

Sounds fair. I have to find some time to inform principals in Finland about FET. I find it super. It works the way I think and it makes things manageable.

Unfortunately it's not possible for me to support you financially. Things go so, that municipality decide what to buy and I can only tell my opinion. Maybe I can tell it louder.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 04:50:07 PM
Thank you!

I thought and I might try these even without sponsors. They are useful.

So, teacher(s) max/min hours per term, 4 types of constraints. The min will have a check box, "Allow empty terms".

Is this needed also for students?

How about the min (for teachers) - is it useful? What do you think? And with the check box allowing empty terms?

Will you be able to test? I might have tomorrow evening a working version, if I move fast. I can do my own tests, but I prefer to see the real life in action.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 05:19:15 PM
[quote
So, teacher(s) max/min hours per term, 4 types of constraints. The min will have a check box, "Allow empty terms".

Is this needed also for students?

How about the min (for teachers) - is it useful? What do you think? And with the check box allowing empty terms?

Will you be able to test? I might have tomorrow evening a working version, if I move fast. I can do my own tests, but I prefer to see the real life in action.

[/quote]

Not needed for students in our system. We only want that they have at least 3 lessons a day, nothing more is needed. Timetable is so full that it dosn't need more constrains.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 05:22:50 PM
Min for tearhers in  maybe needed, when a taecher has only few activities.
I'm trying to have this done today, but I certainly will test ýour new constrains  immediately.  If it gives better results its possible for me to make new one on Saturday/Sunday
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 05:29:39 PM
One simple question:
If a teacher has for example 75 activities on the wholwe year, what could be the proper min and max for one term?
Or when teacher has 62? Or 82?

75/5 = 15 (min 12, max 17????)
62/5 = 12,4 (min 10, max 14????)
82/5 = 16,4 (min 15, max 19????)
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 29, 2025, 05:37:55 PM
Quote from: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 05:29:39 PMOne simple question:
If a teacher has for example 75 activities on the wholwe year, what could be the proper min and max for one term?
Or when teacher has 62? Or 82?

75/5 = 15 (min 12, max 17????)
62/5 = 12,4 (min 10, max 14????)
82/5 = 16,4 (min 15, max 19????)


The question is unfortunately not simple. You need to start with higher max and lower min, and strengthen them as you find timetables. You know better than me (practically).
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 29, 2025, 05:43:41 PM
Ok, thanks. Simple question and answer is not. Agreed.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 30, 2025, 10:16:34 AM
Mikko, the variant with "min" is very complicated. I think I will do only the "max" variant, hoping it is the most important and useful. I will let you know when ready. The most important and difficult part is done, the generating code, but now comes the tedious part of the interface.

What do you think about "min"? Is it not important?
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on May 30, 2025, 02:36:58 PM
Dear Mikko,

I did the max. Please let me know. I hope to release maybe in a few days.

The link to test the snapshot is: https://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/download/test/

Thank you for the suggestion!
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: mikkojoo on May 30, 2025, 03:20:45 PM
Quote from: Liviu Lalescu on May 30, 2025, 10:16:34 AMMikko, the variant with "min" is very complicated. I think I will do only the "max" variant, hoping it is the most important and useful. I will let you know when ready. The most important and difficult part is done, the generating code, but now comes the tedious part of the interface.

What do you think about "min"? Is it not important?


Yes, the problem is always too crowded terms. If that is sorted out, there is no need for min, because activities are more even with just "max". A teacher with very small amount of activities, the first problem can be "min" but it can be handled with "max".
And, too many constraints will be a mess. It already is, for me.

But this max will make things much easier.
Title: Re: Terms more even for a teacher
Post by: Liviu Lalescu on June 02, 2025, 11:39:39 AM
The new official FET version, 7.2.4, with max, is just released now. Thank you, Mikko, for suggesting it and testing it!