Desperate For help

Volker Dirr · February 02, 2015, 06:31:24 PM

ok. Instead of "max gaps per day for all Stundents = 0"
you should use "max gaps per week for all Students = 0"

Volker Dirr · February 02, 2015, 06:35:35 PM

Maybe think about using "max hours per day for students" instead of "min hours per day for students". that might be much faster and you can also spread the activities more balanced over the days.

Volker Dirr · February 02, 2015, 08:15:30 PM

Looks like a difficult timetable. Did you already got a complete timetable generated since the last days?
If not: Difficult to say if it is solveable or not, i can't see bugs at the moment.
if you haven't got a timetable yet:
Please remove and/or increase as many constraints as possible (most of all i talk about constraints like: max days, min hours, max hours and max gaps)
You need to have a solution.
As soon as you have got a solution add/decrease those constraints again. But not to many at once. Only step by step.

dotosouza · February 03, 2015, 01:49:36 PM

I've got 3 "good" Timetables since my last post here. But I haven't read all your hints since my last post. Sorry about that...

Well... what happens is that we are thinking of going with the "final version 2". The only problem is that one of my teachers just told me that she can't stay on wednesdays anymore...
Killing myself just started to sound interesting for me xD

Well... I'll try using the stuff u said. The last time they worked.

But let me ask u someting. Is there any way that I can assign a teacher for a subject and then FET assings him to set of students?
For example:
I've got something like 6 math teachers. When FET doesn't seem to be able to finish the timetable in around 15 minutes, I manually change a math teacher for another one.
It would be great if FET did it by itself

Liviu Lalescu · February 03, 2015, 02:00:35 PM

Quote from: dotosouza on February 03, 2015, 01:49:36 PM
But let me ask u someting. Is there any way that I can assign a teacher for a subject and then FET assings him to set of students?
For example:
I've got something like 6 math teachers. When FET doesn't seem to be able to finish the timetable in around 15 minutes, I manually change a math teacher for another one.
It would be great if FET did it by itself

I hope Volker will answer soon. Until then, I think the answer is no, and maybe you can have a look at: http://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/forum/index.php?topic=1633.0 and the US high-schools custom version (but it is difficult to work with that version, and I am not sure it applies to you).

dotosouza · February 03, 2015, 03:12:29 PM

The problem with max hours daily is that My highscool students do need to come to school at 13:00 at least one day/week. so they have like 10 daily hours

dotosouza · February 03, 2015, 03:15:11 PM

Quote from: Liviu Lalescu on February 03, 2015, 02:00:35 PM
Quote from: dotosouza on February 03, 2015, 01:49:36 PM
But let me ask u someting. Is there any way that I can assign a teacher for a subject and then FET assings him to set of students?
For example:
I've got something like 6 math teachers. When FET doesn't seem to be able to finish the timetable in around 15 minutes, I manually change a math teacher for another one.
It would be great if FET did it by itself

I hope Volker will answer soon. Until then, I think the answer is no, and maybe you can have a look at: http://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/forum/index.php?topic=1633.0 and the US high-schools custom version (but it is difficult to work with that version, and I am not sure it applies to you).

WOOOOOOOOWWWWW
I'm downloading it right now

Liviu Lalescu · February 03, 2015, 03:27:44 PM

It has a separate Help menu item. You can read that.

dotosouza · February 03, 2015, 04:05:49 PM

I'll do that
I was trying to understand how it works at this topic
http://lalescu.ro/liviu/fet/forum/index.php?topic=1616.0

Liviu Lalescu · February 03, 2015, 04:09:52 PM

I don't remember exactly the details, it was almost a year ago, but every text about it might be useful.

Volker Dirr · February 03, 2015, 07:39:12 PM

In my opinion it is bad to change teachers so quick. In normal case there is a good reason why the teacher should teach exactly that students and not other ones.
I also don't interrupt scheduling after 15 minutes.
Of course if i am only playing and searing bugs, it is nice to have a quick answer and the timetable is normaly easy. So ot normaly always calculate very quick. But afer i added all constraints and all are well, i just decrease the max gaps per teachers. then the timetable is of course much more difficult. but that doesn't matter, even if it need 10 hours to solve. no problem. it is the last final table and the computer can work while i sleep.

Volker Dirr · February 03, 2015, 07:45:11 PM

Quote from: dotosouza on February 03, 2015, 03:12:29 PM
The problem with max hours daily is that My highscool students do need to come to school at 13:00 at least one day/week. so they have like 10 daily hours

the constraint is not "max hour" the constraint is called "max hourS". so your example is incorrect.
If your students come at 13:00, then they can have max 5 hours. So it is no problem to limit that.

You also added a "no students gap" constraint.
If you also add a "max 10 hours" constraint, then it mean the students won't have the last hour OR won't have the first hour.
If you also add a "max 9 hours" constraint, then it mean the students will have:
from 7:30 to max 15:30 or
from 8:20 to max 16:35 or
from 9:10 to max 17:25 or
from any later hour to max last hour.

dotosouza · February 04, 2015, 05:45:58 PM

Quote from: Volker Dirr on February 03, 2015, 07:39:12 PM
In my opinion it is bad to change teachers so quick. In normal case there is a good reason why the teacher should teach exactly that students and not other ones.
I also don't interrupt scheduling after 15 minutes.
Of course if i am only playing and searing bugs, it is nice to have a quick answer and the timetable is normaly easy. So ot normaly always calculate very quick. But afer i added all constraints and all are well, i just decrease the max gaps per teachers. then the timetable is of course much more difficult. but that doesn't matter, even if it need 10 hours to solve. no problem. it is the last final table and the computer can work while i sleep.

I do believe that. That's why I'm trying to solve my timetable with FET in the first place. You should see our previous timetables, where our teachers used to teach 11 yo kids and 18 yo teens...
And I was interupting the program early because I didn't have time to finish the timetables. My due date was last Thursday.

Yesterday I started using the other version of the program and I didn't have any success. We had to give something for our teachers today, so we decided to keep that "final timetable 2" with some little adjustments

Well.
Thanks a lot guys. Both of you helped me a lot! Thanks for all the answers and hints, Volker. I was only able to succeed thanks to you!
I'll definetly keep using your program, Liviu. And will definitely try to help you improve it with some ideas.
First of them: Remove the break time. In my opinion, is what was making my timetable impossible

Thanks again, guys
see ya next year

Liviu Lalescu · February 04, 2015, 05:50:57 PM

Thank you for your kind words! I'll add your suggestion in the TODO, but it is very unlikely I'll remove the break constraint. Please give me the exact words to add in the TODO.

dotosouza · February 06, 2015, 10:55:19 AM

huhh... I don't know... It's hard to do that.
maybe something like:

"Notice that using break times may result in impossible timetables (if you are using activities with duration >1) or harder activity sceduling (if you split your activities). We sugest ignoring break times for easier to schedule timetables"

Yeah... put it in Red and Bald, just to be sure that everyone sees it xD

Or put it in the menu box at:
Data > Basic > Days and hours > Hours (periods) of the day