groups and subgroups

[palkotamas]

Hi!

In my school there are a lot of groups, and I ask for help to organize them for minimum subroups.

For example Year 7 students forming three classes (a,b,c). Each classes divided into two groups (A, B). The whole year divided into four groups by Maths, Literature and English. This is 3*2*4*4*4=384 subgroups.

Is there any possibilities to reduce the number of subgroups?

Thanks
Tamas

[Liviu Lalescu]

Hello, Tamas, and welcome to the forum! 

1) Maybe you have an example from the previous year, so we can make a precise idea? You can send it by email, if it is private.

2) 384 subgroups might be acceptable for the algorithm.

3) How many real students are in year 7? If each subgroup of the hypothetical 384 has at least one real student in it, I think you cannot have less than 384 FET subgroups.

4) There is a facility to remove a subgroup from every group / from everywhere. But I don't like this solution. You have many subgroups to remove (from the initial 384 ones).

5) In FET-5.46.0, released 5 days ago, we added a feature probably exactly for your case. Add each real student as a FET subgroup, in one or more groups, but only once. Then you can easily add existing subgroups in each group, in the subgroups dialog: "Add existing".

6) Another solution would be to import students. Volker might tell more.

Please let me know.

[palkotamas]

Hi!

This is the first year using FET, so I don't have file from last year. I was using ASC timetables before FET.

In Year 7 there are only 70 students, so lot of subgroups are empty. I will email you this years file when its ready.

Thanks for helping.

[Liviu Lalescu]

Oh, I meant if you have some pdf or other form of final timetables (from previous years), or the arrangement of the students as pdf (I cannot read aSc Timetables files, I don't have this installed and I have no experience with it).

I think the method "Add existing" subgroups will work well in your case. You might send me your file with only year 7 after you input the students in this way, for me to do a check (but if I also can view the groups in a natural way - maybe pdf).

From 70 to 384 it is ~5 time more. The generation of the timetable might probably take less than 5 times more - maybe much less. So if you are in a hurry, you can use 384 subgroups. But it is uglier than the perfect solution that a FET subgroup = a real-life student.

[Volker Dirr]

Depending on your exact dataset:
That number of subgroups might be only critical if you add them manually; but you might use the split year feature.

You said that each group is divided into A and B. What do the students? It might be possible to just add 2 teachers into that activities and select the correct 2nd room later. (that is how i do it with groups that are divided into 2 parts.) But you might also use the virtual room feature for that activities. It's highly depending on your dataset which variant is better.

[Liviu Lalescu]

Depending on your exact dataset:
That number of subgroups might be only critical if you add them manually; but you might use the split year feature.

No, Volker, even with automatically division of years by categories there will result many subgroups, and at least 384 - 70 = 314 of them will be empty.

[Volker Dirr]

of course the number is "high", but that must not be bad. it is only "bad" if the timetable will generate to slow by that. But he didn't wrote if it is too slow or not. He only wrote too many subgroups. maybe only too many because he added them all manually. That is of course bad.
And my suggested "hint" reduce the number of subgroups.

[palkotamas]

Hi!

I think i have a solution on your advices. The activities belongs to the all year I make an activity with the four teachers. So I dont need all the lots of subgroups except the A and B subgroups.
And therefore I dont need the time constraints for them

[Liviu Lalescu]

This is great if they are simultaneous, and great that Volker pointed this out! You can use virtual rooms to add multiple rooms to an activity.

Keep us informed (I am very interested how FET manages your timetable, maybe compared to aSc Timetables that you used until now).

[palkotamas]

For the first look, FET looks better than ASC.