Needs help

[Leo]

Dear Mr. Liviu Lalescu

First of all, thank you very much for your efforts, I am a new user of FET and I really need help regarding some points as a beginner:

I work in a college, I was asked to prepare timetables for the coming scholastic year that starts in October, as I am a new user I decided to start with one department in the college as a test before continuing to other departments.

Before starting using the program, I read lots of information that was brought to me via web sites and FET's manual regarding using the program correctly.

I enetered teachers' information, courses taught and I reached till the YEARS, GROUPS, SUBGROUPS that I found a little bit confusing. Just plz let me tell you the narrative that I need your help with.

Study duration in the college is 2 years, each year is divided into 3 semesters, in the first semester which is the first stage of schooling students visit the same activities, but in the second semester it varies because some fail in courses so students will not visit the same activities and differences emerge.

How to implement that situation of years and semesters (MARKED IN RED) using FET ?

Thank you.

[Liviu Lalescu]

FET can generate a timetable for only one semester at a time.

I guess for the first semester it is easy. For next semesters, use the divisions of FET years, probably. A FET year is in fact a "form", or "class".

[Leo]

Dear Mr.Liviu

Thank you for you reply.

I agree with you that FET makes the timetable for one semester, but the upcoming semester in October will vary by its type because for some students it will be the fourth semester which means that students will not visit the same activities, and for the rest of them it will be the first semester which means that students will visit the same activities.

Hope I made myself clear, so regarding what I described above what is the (year, group and subgroup)??


Thank you...

[Liviu Lalescu]

You can divide year Y1 into groups G1 and G2. G1 will be old students, G2 new students. Add activities for G1 and G2. Isn't that a clear notion?

You can use subgroups if you want, or just use years and groups.

[Chafik Graiguer]

As Liviu said: FET can only generate one timetale for each semester

Let us take a look at your sitution:  
for the  first semester: suppose we have 8 subjects/courses labeled:
Subject-101, subject-102... subject-108
I suppose the students are divided into groups, say 10 groups, because 400 students cant attend the same course in one room !! we need to devide them by 10
asssuming 40 students in each group
if so, then create 10 groups and generate your timetable for the first semester
If there is only one BIG group, then you have to generate a timetable fot this unique group, along with one timetable for each teacher

Now, the second semester
Suppose we have the following courses/subjects:
Subject-201, subject-202... subject-208
We need to do some assumptions:
we will have the following groups:

1- group or groups who have fully passed first semester, they will have only second semester's subjects

2-group or groups with MIXED subjects
Here, you have to define in advance some scenarios:
groupA: subject-101 and subject-102 .. from first semester + subject-205 ans subject-206 and subject-208 .. from second semester..
groupB: subject-101 and subject-106 and subject-108 from first semester + subject-203 and subject-204... from second semester..  
and so on..
after defining those groups, we can generate the timetable for second semester

ٍSo you need only to define 2 years, each years has a set of Groups
You have to make a separate files for each semester ! dont mix them !! because semesters are independants

Hope this help you seeing more clear...

[Leo]

Merci beacoup monsieur Alfaromeo,

Will try what you have suggested and got back to you with questions  


Thank you very much.

[Leo]

Dear Mr. Alfaromeo:

Thank you for your help, after revising what you have described I got the following data:

In the first semester, the upcoming one, we have 12 courses/subjects to be taught in the computer department.

Those 12 subjects are divided into 5 levels, so I divided students into 5 big groups regarding the level that they will enter and study.

Then I divided those 5 groups into subgroups regarding the courses taught in each main group.(One main group contains subjects to be taught).

So, at last I got Groups and subgroups of students.

Hope I am working on the right path. I attached the file for you review. Could you please just check it and tell me what you think ?

Thank you.

[Chafik Graiguer]

Dear Leo
I took a look at the attached file
The entred data seems correct
however, I didnot understand:
Then I divided those 5 groups into subgroups regarding the courses taught in each main group
What do you mean by "main group"?
I assume the students from the same level attend the same courses. isnot it ?

In the next step, you have to enter the activities for each group or subgroup
So give, for example, the details of
-courses studied by Level3-A
and
- courses studied by Level3-B
In other words, what is the differences between those two subgroups ?

A final lquestion: is those levels related, in any way, with semesters ?

[Leo]

Dear Mr.Alfaromeo:

Thank you for your reply, I meant by the 5 groups what I described as 5 levels. (Maybe I chose the wrong word, sorry.)

The situation is like follows:

1- In the first semester, the upcoming one, we have 12 courses/subjects to be taught in the computer department.

2- These 12 courses are divided into 5 groups (levels) of courses.(Each group has its own courses), and YES students from the same level attend the same courses, so in my file that I attached these 5 groups(levels) are named as Level1,Level2,...Level5.

3- As I said before, each group (level) has its own courses.So again I divided the main group (level) into sub groups depending on the courses that are attached to that level, but because students cant attend the same course in one room, the one course might be duplicated in the one group(level) 4 or 5 times like what we call sections, so now I guess you know the answer for your question regarding the difference between Level3-A and Level3-B, and the answer is that there is no difference because they are related to one course but different sections, but for example there is a difference between Level3-D and Level3-E because each one of them is related to different course.

4- Regarding your last question, Mr. Alfaromeo, all what I have mentioned is related because as I said in the beginning they all contribute for the upcoming semester.(The same semester).

Thank you very much, hope I cleared my situation more.

[Chafik Graiguer]

Based on your explanation, it seems  you dont need subgroups at all !!
all you need is groups like this:
Level1-A, Level1-B, Level1-C, ... Level2-A, Level2-B, Level2-C, Level3-A... and so on

Subgroups are usefull when a group's students attend nearly the same courses together at the same time, same room except for few courses, where they are plitted into two or more subgroups.
For exemple the group Level1-A would contain two subgroups: Level1-A_Boys and Level1-A_Girls. so the groups attend the same courses together except for gymnastic, where girls are separated from boys  
if you dont have this scenario, dont use subgroups at all

Two words about years: in FET, Year refers to the grades not to the academic year
in your situation, you have two years: year 1 and year2
If you would like to enter the academic year (1430 hijri), put it at:
Data --> institution informations ---> comments

In bref:
-define year1 and, eventualy, year2
-define groups such: Level1-A, Level1-B, Level1-C, ... Level2-A, Level2-B, Level2-C, Level3-A... and so on

Good luck
سأقوم بكتابة هذه المعلومات باللغة العربية في القسم العربي

[Leo]

Dear Mr. Alfaromeo,

Thank you for your reply, so I have to modify the year that I entered to year1 So, 1430 in our example will become year1 , right ?

You said that there is no need for any subgroups, so I will delete the subgroups that I made and expand the original groups to cover the whole courses that we have as what you have suggested, but one question please regarding the groups:

Suppose that in the one level, a given course is duplicated 4 times, do I need 4 subgroups for that duplication of the given course?, cause as you know students cant attend the same course in one room.

Thank you,  waiting   :-/

[Chafik Graiguer]

As already sugged by Liviu:

You can use subgroups if you want, or just use years and groups.

Suppose you have 200 students in the Level1
Well, all those students study the same courses,  but cant attend the same course in one room.    
we will create 10 groups, each group contains 20 students .right ?  
we will name those groups : Level1-A, Level1-B ... Level1-J
Those groups wil have the same set of activities/courses

The same apply for level2
Suppose you have 100 students in the Level2
Well, all those students study the same courses,  but cant attend the same course in one room.    
we will create 5 groups, each group contains 20 students .right ?
we will name those groups : Level2-A, Level2-B ... Level2-E

Suppose that in the one level, a given course is duplicated 4 times, do I need 4 subgroups for that duplication of the given course?,

Yes you need to duplicate the courses as many as the level's groups

Let us put it in othe words:
What is a group ?
Quote from FET manual:

Group: A set of students who visit the same activities. So they meet the same teachers to study the same subjects at the same time.

if level1 was a Group, we would  take level1-A, level1B...etc as subgroups, but Level1 is not a group in FET's terminology !!
it is likely a grade or a "pseudo-year", because students from Level1 dont visit the same activities at the same time in the same room

I think students from the same level are already  assigned into groups by the University administration  !! so you dont have to invent groups  

I attached a modified version of your FET file

[Leo]

Dear Mr. Alfaromeo:

Thank you very much, you bothered yourself in modifying my "FET". Will check the file and your explanation and come back to you with new stuff  ;)

Thank you again ...........

[Leo]

Dear Mr.Alfaromeo:

I am back  8-), before talking about ativities and assigning them to teachers, I have a question regarding "Ativity Tags".

As a technical college, almost every subject to be taught has its own activity tag, this activity tag is to be taught also by the same teacher or another one. In my FET file I already entered these activity tags, but my question is  " Will FET put them automatically in the timetable?" or should I assign them also for the teacher as a stand alone subject ?

For instance, suppose I have PROG1 as a main subject and it has alose PROG1 as an activity tag, Should I assign just the main subject "PROG1" to the teacher? OR I have to assign also the activity tag of the main subject to the teacher again. (to deal with the activity tag as a main subject ).

Hope it is clear..

All the best,