activities for subgoups

[Chafik Graiguer]

please could you tell how to set constraints for following situation:
Students from group G1 take courses together all the time, exept for one activity Biology (duration: 1 hour) witch take place into laboratory
the gorup is divided into two subgroups G1_a and G1_b, each subgroup taking one hour biology activity
if the first subgroup is taking Biology course, the second has nothing to do. which may mean a gap
So the two Bilogoy courses should start and end the student's day (the two courses should take place in the same day)
The day is 2N real day
so the following possibilities are prefered:
|biology|activity X|biology|free|
|free|biology|activity X |biology|
|biology|activity X |biology|free|
|biology|activity X  ||activity Y |biology|


the following possibilities are the worst, are to be avoided:
|biology|biology|activity X|activity Y|
|biology|biology|activity X |free|
|activity Y |biology|biology|activity X   |
|activity Y|biology|biology|free|
... etc

in bref , Biology subject should start and end student's day, and not to be consecutives

So
1- should I creat the two subgroups, enter a bilogy activity ( duration1) for each subgroups, hoping that FET take care of gaps
2- or should I add:
two activities are grouped + Min gaps between activities (set to 1)+ one activity ends student's day
3- or maybe a better solution

[Volker Dirr]

I don't know your whole students structure, but for the moment i think solution 1 should be the best.
If your current group G1 has no subgroups, then you can do that without any problems.
If you group G1 already have some (automatic) generated subgroups, then a closer look is needed just to be sure.

The students structure is always very importend and i can just recommend everybody to care/think and create it before adding activities.

also importend to know is if the students timetable are (except that 1 hour while the other group has biology) is 100% filled.
if that is true, then you can also just add 2 hours biology to the whole group and the teacher tell half of that group that they come at one day and the other half at the other day.
Of course that 2 activities should get an activity preferd starting time constraint (with first and last period of all days), but like i told, that "easy" solution is only 100% the same (and also faster) if the students timetable is 100% filled. (You can also do it if your timetable is not 100% filled, but you will maybe find not the best timetable. Speed might befast but can also be slower in that case, it depend on how many possible timetables/solution you exclude by this hint, but i fear nearly nobody can calcualte that, but you can just test it if you want.)

[Chafik Graiguer]

Hallo Volker
Thanks for reply
I ill try to generate a first timetable withoud any constraint related to this special case

but, what do you mean by 10% filled?
well, total time slots available per week is 4X11 = 44 hours
Group G1 has to study 30 hours per week

on the other hand, G1 has no automatilcally generated subgroups, because I dont need subgroups at all, exepect for this case (biology)

if that is true, then you can also just add 2 hours biology to the whole group and the teacher tell half of that group that they come at one day and the other half at the other da

ok, but the two biololgy courses should be scheduled in the same day

[Liviu Lalescu]

please could you tell how to set constraints for following situation:
Students from group G1 take courses together all the time, exept for one activity Biology (duration: 1 hour) witch take place into laboratory
the gorup is divided into two subgroups G1_a and G1_b, each subgroup taking one hour biology activity
if the first subgroup is taking Biology course, the second has nothing to do. which may mean a gap
So the two Bilogoy courses should start and end the student's day (the two courses should take place in the same day)
The day is 2N real day
so the following possibilities are prefered:
|biology|activity X|biology|free|
|free|biology|activity X |biology|
|biology|activity X |biology|free|
|biology|activity X  ||activity Y |biology|


the following possibilities are the worst, are to be avoided:
|biology|biology|activity X|activity Y|
|biology|biology|activity X |free|
|activity Y |biology|biology|activity X   |
|activity Y|biology|biology|free|
... etc

in bref , Biology subject should start and end student's day, and not to be consecutives

So
1- should I creat the two subgroups, enter a bilogy activity ( duration1) for each subgroups, hoping that FET take care of gaps
2- or should I add:
two activities are grouped + Min gaps between activities (set to 1)+ one activity ends student's day
3- or maybe a better solution

I do not understand solution 2. Solution 1 is the good one, because FET takes care of gaps for subgroups.

[Chafik Graiguer]

I do not understand solution 2. Solution 1 is the good one, because FET takes care of gaps for subgroups.

I mean not creating any subgroup at all
Just add two activities: biololgy_A1 and biology_A2 for whole group G1
Then,for those two activities, add:
-two activities are grouped , so they are scheduled same day
- Min gaps between activities (set to 1), so they are not consecutives
- activity biololgy_A2 ends student's day, because one activity should be always the last one (see example above)

But,under those constraints, we dont have full control, there is still at least one idesirable possibility:
|activity X  |biology|activity X  |biology|

[Liviu Lalescu]

I do not understand solution 2. Solution 1 is the good one, because FET takes care of gaps for subgroups.

I mean not creating any subgroup at all
Just add two activities: biololgy_A1 and biology_A2 for whole group G1
Then,for those two activities, add:
-two activities are grouped , so they are scheduled same day
- Min gaps between activities (set to 1), so they are not consecutives
- activity biololgy_A2 ends student's day, because one activity should be always the last one (see example above)

But,under those constraints, we dont have full control, there is still at least one idesirable possibility:
|activity X  |biology|activity X  |biology|

I don't like this solution, but it might work.

[Chafik Graiguer]

Thanks a lot

^. Solution 1 is the good one, because FET takes care of gaps for subgroups.

Very good
these means that, to avoid gaps, FET will place  biology lessons always at "boundaries", ie. one starting and the other ending student's day

[Liviu Lalescu]

Thanks a lot

^. Solution 1 is the good one, because FET takes care of gaps for subgroups.

Very good
these means that, to avoid gaps, FET will place  biology lessons always at "boundaries", ie. one starting and the other ending student's day

Probably :-). Because FET will respect all constraints with 100% weight. So, FET is doing advanced logic even without you telling him so :-).

[Chafik Graiguer]

ok
in FET we trust  
Since the two biology lessons must be scheduled in the same day, should I add constraint: two activities are grouped
Thanks

[Liviu Lalescu]

ok
in FET we trust  
Since the two biology lessons must be scheduled in the same day, should I add constraint: two activities are grouped
Thanks

Constraint activities same starting day to be in the same day or grouped to be consecutive in the same day.

[Chafik Graiguer]

Constraint activities same starting day to be in the same day or grouped to be consecutive in the same day.

well
I am a little bit confused
1- in the FET help, two activities grouped says:

2 activities grouped (activities must be in the same day, one following the other one, in any order, possibly separated by breaks)

so maybe  it is the same as: "activities same starting day"
"Activities same starting day"  means also:
- in the same day
-one following the other in any order
- consecutive or possibly separated

2- What do you mean by "breaks"?
do you mean lessons or gaps (free timeslot)?

Thanks

[Liviu Lalescu]

Break = constraint break (not allowed slot).

Grouped, consecutive = immediately following the other (a block of activities).

Same day = just same day.

[Chafik Graiguer]

Well.
1- Break is OK  
2- let us see if I have understood the other stuff:
-in "Activities same starting day", possiblities are: consecutives, separated by  block of activities, separated by breaks
- in "two activities grouped" , the same things, except "separated by  block of activities" isnot allowed

am I right ?

[Liviu Lalescu]

Well.
1- Break is OK  
2- let us see if I have understood the other stuff:
-in "Activities same starting day", possiblities are: consecutives, separated by  block of activities, separated by breaks
- in "two activities grouped" , the same things, except "separated by  block of activities" isnot allowed

am I right ?

Yes (same day might also have them separated by activities+breaks).

[Chafik Graiguer]

Thanks a lot

^. Solution 1 is the good one, because FET takes care of gaps for subgroups.

Very good
these means that, to avoid gaps, FET will place  biology lessons always at "boundaries", ie. one starting and the other ending student's day

Probably :-). Because FET will respect all constraints with 100% weight. So, FET is doing advanced logic even without you telling him so :-).

Yes !!
there is no gaps for the group
To acheive this, FET placed activities for subgroups either at start or ar end of students day