5 over 6 days

Volker Dirr · March 26, 2018, 10:53:08 PM

it is non-ciricular. but may his timetables isn't very difficult and he can also solve it easily, even it is a bit more strict.

i just see an other variant:
as i can see it is in fact clear what activities are at the day, since i guess you always want exactly 2 times core, 2 times project and 2 times the other.

so why not simply using "same day constraint" to the 6 activities of split day a and similar to split day b? Than also a min and max 1 day constraint with 100%.
That solution is also not circular. i know, but i guess he/you should try.

metherington · March 28, 2018, 02:11:14 AM

I'm trying to keep up with your ideas, but it's tricky to understand!

Just one note - realizing my "Core" terminology was not totally helpful. The 4 periods called "core" represent 4 activities (Math, Science, Social Studies, and Language Arts). Each is taught 3 of the 4 periods in a CORE block (like my math example image) with the large class split into 3 subgroups.

4 periods of core classes would be a variation of this:

Math / Sci / SS
SS / LA / Math
Sci / LA / SS
Sci / LA / Math

Volker Dirr · March 28, 2018, 08:28:13 AM

How do you split the students at the split day in subject core?

Lets take the 5th Grade:
Split days are A and B.
What subject do they have at day A: For example only math, only science? Or 2 different subjects?
What subject do they have on day B? The same as day A or other subjects?

You should show us your activity planning, since i hope you can see the correct students structure. I still think your students structure is "bad", since FET, we and also your students won't be able to see if that is a split day or not and they can also not see the subjects. Let's see your activity planning. If it is to private, you can also sent per email. Adding and understanding your dataset will be much easier if you setup the correct structure.

metherington · March 28, 2018, 02:46:10 PM

On 4 of the 6 days, every student takes all 4 classes in one of three subgroups:

Math / Sci / SS
LA / Math / Sci
SS / LA / Sci
Sci / SS / Math

On the two split days, they take the same 4 classes over 2 consecutive days. For example:

Split day A
Math / Sci / SS
LA / Math / Sci

Split Day B
SS / LA / Sci
Sci / SS / Math

I was holding off on building this in FET until I figured this out. I was able to make a schedule - it just wouldn't keep the split days consecutive.

Liviu Lalescu · March 28, 2018, 02:51:58 PM

Please allow me a bit more time to read and process.

Meanwhile, maybe you could send your current file to me and Volker, by email if it is private.

Volker Dirr · March 28, 2018, 04:14:27 PM

ok. i think i understood. if you also sent me a file and or the activity planning i will enter the 5th Grade. i must go to the dentist now; i will so as soon as i am back.

metherington · March 28, 2018, 04:29:56 PM

I tried to set up 5th grade only on this file. Because core classes are always scheduled in blocks of 2, I decided to block schedule them here - makes it easier to read.

In generating this file it did place the split days consecutively (C&D days in this example), but that's not necessarily the case.

Please see attached FET file and output file to see more...

thanks!

Matthew

Volker Dirr · March 28, 2018, 06:10:00 PM

you are mixing teachers, subjects and students. i don't think that is good.
why do you add "4 teachers" if one is unneeded? just because you don't know better or because that is the supply teacher if someone is ill?
project teachers are always the same as core teachers?

Liviu Lalescu · March 28, 2018, 06:13:29 PM

Quote from: metherington on March 28, 2018, 04:29:56 PM
Please see attached FET file and output file to see more...

Oh, having an example file makes things much clearer! Volker was right to ask for it

I attach my file, modified from yours. Please see how I added the Core list of activities and min days between activities constraints. This is to ensure that each day has at least 2 hours of Core. Also, there are 4 same starting day constraints, and the remaining 2 activities (ids 65 and 66) are constrained by a constraint max 1 days between activities.

The only problem is that the max days between activities does not admit ids 65 and 66 to be on A and F. My example file (attached) gives always correct answers, but it is too constrained. A simple customization of the constraint max days between activities (to allow circular days A and F) would make things perfect.

Please let me know.

PS: You can open my attached file with your FET. Just ignore the newer version warning.

Volker Dirr · March 28, 2018, 06:29:24 PM

hmmm? i don't understand you split day in that example file. students haven't got free, you set an other activity?! Did i misunderstood?

i will try to sum:
A student must do 4 core selections:
1st core selection: Math / Sci / SS
2nd core selection: LA / Math / Sci
3th core selection: SS / LA / Sci
4th core selection: Sci / SS / Math

ok. That is clear. So if you have maybe 60 Students in that year, than each activity has got around 20 students.

please tell me if the following is also correct, since the post in this forum are different from the exaplefile:

A students also need to do also 3 other selection (if i understood you messages here)
5th selection: Spanish OR PE (so around 25 students per activity)
6th selection: PA OR Project
7th selection: Art OR Project
But in your dataset it look like you swap them in "Grp1" and "Grp2". But both groups work on different split days. That is conflicting to your description.)

Then all students must do Project (so there a students that have got only 2 hours project, while others have got more hours by the 6th ot 7th selection?!)
How many teacher/rooms do you need here: all core teacher?!

And what are about the splits? Rereading your explanations and viewing your dataset it look strange, since some students will do other subjects more often than the other students. Or do you change that every week?

You shouldn't mix students, teachers and subjects. That is "confusing". Can't you sent me an activity planning, i think it will be much easier to understand with that.

metherington · March 28, 2018, 06:36:45 PM

I just ran Liviu's file and it was missing half of the core classes - I put each core class back to 2 duration, and that seemed to fix it - no more empty periods.

I think this works, and I understand what you did with the constraints.

If a customization is needed for the A and F days to be available as "split days" then I would gladly receive it - thanks!

I'm attaching the latest file with the added duration.

Volker - I was having a hard time splitting the class of 50 into two groups of 25 and also into 3 even groups, so I simplified it by lumping them together. It won't have any negative impact on our schedule.

thanks

Matthew

Liviu Lalescu · March 28, 2018, 06:53:11 PM

Oh, indeed, my mistake

I am beginning work now.

Volker Dirr · March 28, 2018, 06:54:41 PM

If you are satisfied, than all is fine. I just still wonder a bit there are are 4 teachers in the core even you need only 3. I also highly suggest to use only teacher names as teacher names.
Do you need to care about rooms or do you always have enough rooms? There might be room problems if you merge the activities instead of using the "correct" students structure.

metherington · March 28, 2018, 06:56:29 PM

Each teacher gets one of those periods free, so it's OK.

I only used generic names while we troubleshoot.

Sent you an email with a link to a Google Doc.

thanks

Matthew

metherington · March 28, 2018, 07:00:31 PM

There will be a couple of room constraints needed, but mostly not.

Grades 5 and 6 share a building

Grades 7 and 8 share a building

They both have the same two issues:

1) They should not have Project scheduled at the same time
2) They cannot have more than 2 periods of CORE classes at the same time (or they do run out of spaces)

I was going to ask these things next!

You guys are so helpful - thank you!

Matthew