Hebrew translation

[yotam]

Is there any Hebrew translation activity going on?
עִבְרִי דַּבֵּר עִבְרִית
If not, I would like to try, but cannot commit to it.
So if someone wants to jump in, please do not hesitate to ignore me.

-- yotam
-- יותם

[Liviu Lalescu]

Thank you!

There is nobody else announcing translation into Hebrew, so you will be the designated translator (if someone else comes, you will decide how to go on).

Please read the instructions. Maybe you could do the FetMainForm_template firstly (the main menu) (I prefer this way).

[yotam]

Hello Liviu,

Attached is my first shot at Hebrew translation.
Before I read the instructions, I started with [Qt-]linguist
at the beginning. Only later I realized I should have started
with the more important section, namely FetMainForm_template.
I jumped to it and finished that.

In order to test, I realized that adding "fet_he.ts" to ./src/src.pro
is not sufficient. So I added the obvious lines to
  setLanguage() @ ./src/interface/fet.cpp
  FetMainForm::on_languageAction_activated() @ ./src/interface/fetmainform.cpp
May be these functions/files should be mentioned in
  ./doc/adding-new-translations/adding-new-translations.txt
Actually, in Linux this could probably be done automatically
from the main Makefile.
Introducing say  TRANSLATIONS_SUFFIXES = ar ca da ... he ... uk
and deriving  TRANSLATIONS and generating automatic C++ code chunks
into the two functions referred to above.

I speak, read and write Hebrew very well.
However, I am not a professional translator,
and almost never use Hebrew for GUI applications.
I simply prefer English for such activity.
Thus, I am not all that familiar with Computerish-Hebrew terminology.
I expect to get teasing criticism.
At least, I tried to be consistent, but may have frequently failed.

Hebrew specific difficulty
Modern Hebrew is changing fast. In general, text is vowel-less.
Frequently, it is impossible to read a modern Hebrew word
without knowing it and its context.
Hebrew does have diacritic-marks (niqud/nikud) which are
dots and small segments on top of letters.
But now days, they are mainly used only for first grade kids and poetry.
They do help in resolving ambiguities in reading.
There is a tendency in recent years, to use some specific letters
also as vowels, instead of the diacritic-marks.
This is called  'full-spelling'  ('Ktiv Malle').
In contrast to the good old 'spelling-less' or
'terse-spelling'  ('Ktiv khasser') which personally I prefer.
In my translation,
I probably used more diacritic-marks than generally expected.

Example of ambiguity:
The words: 
  year == SHANNA
  modify! (as a directive order) == SHANNE
in Hebrew sound different, but have the same basic spelling.

-- yotam

[Liviu Lalescu]

Hello!

Please from now on send the files to my personal e-mail address. I can also get from the forum, but is a bit more cumbersome and it is eating up space here.

Please tell me: do you agree to list your name and e-mail address as a translator? What is your complete name? If you want, we can use a pseudo name or give the contact as your user name on the FET forum.

Also, Hebrew is a right-to-left language, like Arabic and Farsi?

Also, please update your Qt Linguist to a newer version and select the language and country (it is not set as it is now).

I would like to release a new version in a few days, maybe a week. I would like to include your translation, even if it contains only the main menu. But only if you agree.

Did you check practically your translation, very careful for the constraints in the main menu? To check that you differentiate activity/activities/subactivities, day/week, preferred starting time/preferred time slots, etc.

About adding new languages in FET: I added the two .cpp files which you must change in the documentation, but I cannot make a script to change them automatically. I will do that personally, because I also need to add the contact of the translator.

[yotam]

Hello,

As you asked, I just e-mailed you directly a 2nd version of a Hebrew
translation.

Yes, I do agree to have my name and email-address shown as a translator.
My name:  Yotam Medini
(and in In Hebrew:
  יותם מדיני
)
And I have no problem with you releasing it unfinished.

Hebrew is indeed right-to-left.
[ By the way, I once learned the historic reason.
   Most human beings are right-handed.
   To write with hammer on stone as in ancient times,
   it is more natural to do right-to-left.
   But when using modern ink - right-to left just make your hand dirty. ]

I will try to upgrade Qt-Linguist version if it does not break
the consistency of my Ubuntu-10.04 apt-database.

My daughter helped me go thru all the main windows text.
I read the Hebrew items and she confirmed it matches the English one.
She did find one miss, and found a typo and one inconsistency.
The version I sent have them fixed.

Right-to-Left problem:
The language selection menu show the languages in right-to-left mode
with wrong parenthesis. Like:
  (ar (Arabic
See attached (small) image.

-- yotam

[Liviu Lalescu]

About your name, I'll add the English version, because foreign characters always have problems. E-mail address is that from which you wrote me?

About newer Qt Linguist: I am only interested to have the language and country set. The thing is that if I open your file with my Qt Linguist, it asks me to set those 2. I prefer them to be already set, like the rest of the translations. Also, please see the other translations files (.ts) with a text editor. They contain line numbers referring to the sources, in addition to the rest of information. I also prefer to have those. When you'll update your Linguist, it won't add source line numbers reference to your file, I think, but I will add them on my computer by running lupdate and from them on you'll also have them, if you'll use the new Linguist.

I think that to update your Linguist, you need to update libtqt4-devel. But I wonder why you have such an old version - maybe you changed some settings in Linguist and it only looks like an old one. Tell me what version of Linguist do you have?

About parentheses: it is a bug of Qt I think. Minor things with RTL languages. I cannot correct that.

I'll wait for your file and maybe tomorrow I'll add it and release a snapshot so that you can check that the language works OK.

[yotam]

Hello Liviu,

I got linquist-qt4 installed. It is contained in Ubuntu's qt4-dev-tools.

When I loaded 'my' fet_he.ts into it, for the target translation, I entered
Language:Hebrew Country/Region:Israel.
Then it worked a little and I got in the Sources and Forms sub-window:

File /home/local/src/fet-5.14.0/translations not readable

I also noticed that inside linguist-qt4 the display of the text of both the source and target shows center-dots (like algebraic multiplication) instead of spaces. Is this right?

Worse than that, the Hebrew translated text got the words mirrored (not the letters). This is like converting Hamlet's famous phrase into:
   

be to not or be to

[/i]
This mirroring happens in the linguist-qt4 display,
not in the resulted fet_he.ts but still it is practically impossible to work with.

What am I missing?

regards -- yotam

[Liviu Lalescu]

Hello Liviu,

I got linquist-qt4 installed. It is contained in Ubuntu's qt4-dev-tools.

When I loaded 'my' fet_he.ts into it, for the target translation, I entered
Language:Hebrew Country/Region:Israel.
Then it worked a little and I got in the Sources and Forms sub-window:

File /home/local/src/fet-5.14.0/translations not readable

This is OK, even I got this.

I also noticed that inside linguist-qt4 the display of the text of both the source and target shows center-dots (like algebraic multiplication) instead of spaces. Is this right?

Yes, it's OK, this is for translators to check that they don't write two spaces one after the other.

Worse than that, the Hebrew translated text got the words mirrored (not the letters). This is like converting Hamlet's famous phrase into:
   

be to not or be to

[/i]
This mirroring happens in the linguist-qt4 display,
not in the resulted fet_he.ts but still it is practically impossible to work with.

What am I missing?

regards -- yotam

Here I don't know. On my computer, I got the phrase: ot eb ro ton ot eb :-)

Maybe you need to set the language of your operating system locale to Hebrew.

I attach a screenshot from my computer. The blue window is from Midnight Commander and is good (I think), then Linguist seems to invert each word.

PS: I'll send you by e-mail your updated file. Please use it, if you didn't make more changes to your file. If you changed your file, ignore my file and I'll update your newest one.

Also, please translate all the section FetMainForm_template (there are 6 strings more, of which one is important to translate).

Later edit:

1) I think that I get the same results as you, in Linguist, "be to not or be to" and mc shows the string inverted.

2) About the file I sent you, firstly we should solve the above problem, then you can take care of the file (so, don't bother with the file I sent you).

3) I saw the Arabic translation from Linguist. It seems to present the same problem. So, it may be because we have an English layout and English locale and settings of Linguist.

[yotam]

Hello,

What exact version of linguist do you use?
My current installed linguist-qt4 is version 4.6.2. May be I should downgrade it.

-- yotam

[Liviu Lalescu]

I use Qt Linguist 4.6.3. No need to downgrade, because my Linguist seems to have the same problem as your's.

I think you need to select the language of your Linux to be Hebrew and layout RLT of your operating system.

I'll search on the Internet for problems like your's in Linguist and solutions.

[Liviu Lalescu]

It is a Qt bug. See: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-4098

What could we do?

The Arabic and Farsi translators did not mention this bug. I think they have their GUI in right-to-left, that's why. Or maybe they use Windows. You told that you use English language in your operating system.

The thing is that I am getting the same behavior with Arabic. So, if the Arabic translator did not complain, maybe it is because the RTL translator must have the interfaces in RTL.

As a last resource, you may try to use an earlier version of Linguist, but I would like one which keeps line numbers and sets the target language and country.

Later addition: please do not forget to translate completely the FetMainForm_template, as I asked previously.

[yotam]

Thanks for finding the reference to the Qt-bug. I am trying to find an earlier 4.x.x version. May be even build such from source.

Changing my environment to right-to-left may mirror the English text. So again it will make working with linguist practically impossible. I need to be able to see both source & translation text simultaneously in their native direction.

My email-address to be used in your translators data is as you have it. You may of course 'humanize' it against spam.

By the way, Sunday-to-Tuesday I will be disconnected from my Linux box and Internet.

-- yotam

[Liviu Lalescu]

Thanks for finding the reference to the Qt-bug. I am trying to find an earlier 4.x.x version. May be even build such from source.

Changing my environment to right-to-left may mirror the English text. So again it will make working with linguist practically impossible. I need to be able to see both source & translation text simultaneously in their native direction.

I think it won't change the English text, only forms layout. Maybe you could try, if it is easy to revert.

My email-address to be used in your translators data is as you have it. You may of course 'humanize' it against spam.

By the way, Sunday-to-Tuesday I will be disconnected from my Linux box and Internet.

-- yotam

This is nasty, because I was relying on you to test the Hebrew menu. But I'll wait some more. Please translate completely the FetMainForm_template (there are some 6 entries untranslated, of which one is visible - something with html) and I hope you can send that now, before Sunday.

You may work for this purpose with the old Linguist you have, and I'll convert it.

If you won't send another file until tomorrow, I'll release a snapshot with the current fet_he.ts file I have.

Snapshot=test, not final release.

[yotam]

Using good-old linguist-qt3 I just emailed you version-3.
It is with translation of the remaining 6 items of that FetMainForm_template.

The 5: 'Ctrl={G,N,O,Q,S}' trivial as-is
The one with 'Html' that I missed.

-- yotam

[Liviu Lalescu]

Thank you! I wrote you an e-mail. In the snapshots section here on forum, I wrote about the new available snapshot (that announcement will be removed after the official release).